Lots of testing and believe we have the offset nailed down

[KnappAttack]

Mike, How stiff is the orange spring on your press compared to the stock or Dalton B/O? I have always had great luck with the thunder spring from 40-60 degrees of wrap. I have used it stock, with Powertrail SM and now MS 16. I am currently liking 60 with the MS 16 SM tune with a 35 helix and xs belt.

I find its very similar to the Dalton B/O. Wrapping it to 90 on a 35/39 helix is the same pressure as a B/O V2 wrapped 90 on a straight 35 on the scale. So in essence the TP orange is stiffer as it wraps up tighter in comparison.

The orange one I had here went over the studs at zero wrap at 20degrees. The B/O V2 goes over at 30 degrees zero wrap.

 

[Thunder Products]

**Update** 2/22/21

Belt blower #1 is fixed and working great!

The belt was riding above the secondary sheaves and yanking off the top ribs of the belt....
This has come up on many occasions where the belt should ride. Thunder Products Clutching will never run the belt above the secondary sheaves on the Winder...especially a tuned Winder.

After fixing the belt guards that were bent up, put on our belt adjuster and positioned the belt just below the top of the sheaves....took it out with a broken in 8JP belt. Clutch temps are super cool, the clutches are working great, the sled carries the skis up to 90mph and still had more, but ran out of room. Hard lake pulls, hard trail pulls and on/off the throttle runs. All good now

 

[jonlafon1]

**Update** 2/22/21

Belt blower #1 is fixed and working great!

The belt was riding above the secondary sheaves and yanking off the top ribs of the belt....
This has come up on many occasions where the belt should ride. Thunder Products Clutching will never run the belt above the secondary sheaves on the Winder...especially a tuned Winder.

After fixing the belt guards that were bent up, put on our belt adjuster and positioned the belt just below the top of the sheaves....took it out with a broken in 8JP belt. Clutch temps are super cool, the clutches are working great, the sled carries the skis up to 90mph and still had more, but ran out of room. Hard lake pulls, hard trail pulls and on/off the throttle runs. All good now

AGREE on the belt riding in secondary.. Just below the sheaves!

 

[bleedyamaha]

Time for me to bring my belt in a bit. Blew 2 belts in 80 miles Saturday. Have to say my belts had over 1000 miles on each of them. Haven’t cleaned clutches so I went through the clutches and inspected everything. Getting new belts and try again.

 

[Thunder Products]

Another test update on belt blower #1

More miles, more hard pulls, a few cat-walks in deep snow and no more issues!

Here is what was all done with belt blower #1: (This sled was brand new this season) TD bundle tunes for the stock dash, cold air intake with 3 inch super quiet exhaust. Running 300 horse. (See pics and previous posts above)

Started out with checking snub shaft to see if it pushed in - (everything good there)

Checked secondary wrap and made sure clutch was working properly - double checked and everything good.

Offset was 62mm - (took down to 57.7mm by machining secondary)
After the offset was corrected, the belts went from exploding to snapping (power snap)

Took SW primary off and installed Apex primary (SW primary had competitors weights in and the SW clutch rollers were all stuck in place) Apex primary was all setup for 300 horse with our Heavy Hitter weights, rollers and spring.

After the clutch swap, the sled wasn't snapping or blowing belts, but now a new problem of chipping the top cogs off of the belt. Found the belt to be running over/above the secondary sheaves. - Installed our Thunder Products Clutching belt adjuster and now all problems are gone. Belt looks like new and no issues now.

This Sidewinder XTX 146 was brand new, blew 3 belts in just over 100 miles. Kept blowing belts like candy. Think this sled has won the belt blower of the season with at least 10 belts in 503 miles (13 to be exact, but not sure). Glad to be done with this belt blower where now the owner can fully appreciate his sled without blowing belts.

 

[fatchance]

Terry, Have you been measuring center to center and are these measurements all over the place or consistent?

 

[SideHogger]

Posted this on another post but going to ask here also. Are you doing anything besides just bolting on Apex clutch and bolting in Sidewinder weights and springs?

 

[THEPASMAN]

How does 14.8 vs 15.8 affect the way weights act in the old style apex clutch also

 

[Thunder Products]

Terry, Have you been measuring center to center and are these measurements all over the place or consistent?

Yes, we have been measuring center to center and they are all within 1.2mm. But watching these clutches under load is where I can see a lot of movement. Like the primary clutch wants to move towards the secondary (and it's noticeable by the naked eye). Those who have launch control or a 2-step can definitely see the movement when engaging on the stand.

Posted this on another post but going to ask here also. Are you doing anything besides just bolting on Apex clutch and bolting in Sidewinder weights and springs?

An Apex or any previous style 4 stroke clutch can be bolted on, most weights and springs will go right in....the only thing is whatever setup you have, you will have to add 4-5 grams to the weights somehow. This is due to the roller and weight location that was changed between the previous style clutches and the Sidewinder clutch. We are checking offset once the Apex clutch is put on...which is very important. Best results from all these belt blowers above that are now not blowing belts is 57.5-58.0mm.

How does 14.8 vs 15.8 affect the way weights act in the old style apex clutch also

The difference between the 14.8mm and the 15.8mm rollers make the shift longer. How much longer of a shift? To the average Joe or Jolene....you won't notice. But to a racer or someone data-logging, you will notice a difference. Thunder Products Clutching has sent out a lot of 15.8mm rollers to have people who were having issues, try them and they didn't see any difference. Even our dealers have purchased quite a few 15.8mm to have their customers try them.

3 of our customers sleds that I have worked on, I put in 15.8mm and asked them to try them....they said there was no difference. These were 3 Sidewinders with the SW clutch that were tuned 280 Precision 9,000+ miles, 300 Hurricane 8,000+ miles and 270 TD with 6,000+ miles. All of them said the sleds were just as fast as before.

Now, I had some rollers specially made that do not have a bushing, they are a pre-hard material. These haven't been tested yet and we are going to send a set to a racer/roller destroyer who could give us feedback on them. As mentioned, these are rollers with no bushing, precision fit to ride on the hardened pin.

 

[Thunder Products]

**Update** 2/25/21

Another 50 miles of hard pulls, deep snow and a couple long pulls on fresh groom and belt blower #1 is going back to it's owner tomorrow. Put over 100 miles on this sled myself and I am confident that it has stopped blowing belts.

Happy to see that it's finally fixed and now can be driven without carrying a ton of belts.

 

[Colton j Urlacher]

Hi Guys new to the forum as I just got myself a sidewinder this year, came from an axys rmk. I've used the search function before posting and I felt this was the best thread to post on seeing as my sidewinder is opposite most others. I'm Having some issues with belts aswell. To my knowledge the machine is all stock 2017 btx le 153 2.25. I've blown two belts in 500km. I'm not sure if the secondary has been machined down at all. I have ordered the hurricane alignment tool but haven't received it and wanting to ride on the weekend. With 4mm of shims behind the secondary I'm dead on at 61mm offset. I've tried removing shims 1mm at a time than taking it for couple pulls and anything other than 61mm the clutches build excessive heat to the point you cannot touch them. I've also inspected the clutches for damage. Before riding this year I installed all new factory springs and rollers in both. Is there anything else I should check and is the heating a big concern? running stock 8jp belts.

 

[blevis213]

Thunder products told me 58-59 mm with their clutching on my stock sled.Not sure why the hot temps unless something off with clutching. What do you have for clutching. Another thing how’s the belt look

 

[Colton j Urlacher]

The clutching is completely stock as far as I know. The belt looks normal to me no obvious signs of damage. Running the clutches slowly through the rpm with the track up they cycle correctly they are not sticking or binding up anywhere.

 

[Sledroll]

The clutching is completely stock as far as I know. The belt looks normal to me no obvious signs of damage. Running the clutches slowly through the rpm with the track up they cycle correctly they are not sticking or binding up anywhere.

How much would it cost if all SW's and 9000's were sent to Thunder to get fixed before delivery ????
Unless Thunder could set up shop at the end of the production line in TRF !
One way or another it is a cure for the transmission issues !
And then Thunder could send the these sleds to BOP and he could do his fixes , and the he could send them to Dave or Ben ,to do their magic , and then they ......................................................

 

[SideHogger]

The clutching is completely stock as far as I know. The belt looks normal to me no obvious signs of damage. Running the clutches slowly through the rpm with the track up they cycle correctly they are not sticking or binding up anywhere.

Pull all the shims behind your secondary out. Run without any, check belt temps, if still hot, check stub shaft on primary and see if it is flush. Just punch in stub shaft and should bring you to thread with pictures and that way you’ll know what to look for.