LTX 137 lack of transfer..Reasoning/Solution?

[actionjack]

I only have a 137 in my garage I have no idea which one is lighter or stronger I just discovered that there definitely different part numbers suggesting different springs
I understand the sit/in and I understand all the reasons we want to do this I was just thinking it was possible the 129 had the lighter spring. If I was sure I would get a lighter spring from Hygear I would’ve bought those already but I’m definitely interested in seeing how Travis’s idea shakes out. The springs from the 137 are cheaper so I guess it makes sense that they’re lighter

 

[ClutchMaster]

Wouldn't the sled be more prone to bottoming out with the spring blocks so low? Too bad there wasn't a way to the design the spring end with a bend in it so that it would be soft initially and then stiff at full travel instead of moving the adjuster blocks. The only way for it to work is you would need round adjuster blocks that wouldn't be adjustable for this to work.

Actually since your using a spring with more rate it would be less prone to bottoming out than a softer spring wound tighter. As the suspension is compressed it would get stiffer faster. Atleast you could get the ride height correct.

 

[cannondale27]

I am just going off what you found that the ltx has a softer spring. Didn't do any investigating on my end. It makes sense that it would be softer. It's not apples to apples comparison between the 129 and 137 due to rear mounting points being different. If 137 would have just been same tunnel mounts as 129 and just added longer rails then the 137 would have likely needed stiffer springs.

Hygear suggests 3" of sit in/sag from rear mounting bolt to grade with rider on machine. Would you agree Steve? If you can't get sit in with the stock springs on softest setting then, you need softer springs or less preload like my solution.

I feel once lighter riders gets the correct sit in the sled will transfer much better and the transfer blocks will actually be an effective adjustment.

Yes or more.

 

[cannondale27]

Actually since your using a spring with more rate it would be less prone to bottoming out than a softer spring wound tighter. As the suspension is compressed it would get stiffer faster. Atleast you could get the ride height correct.

And bottoming is solved with shocks not springs. At least by me it is.

 

[**sj**]

this is more than transfer...sit in affects ride compliance as well...

the shocks are more than capable against bottoming...you should not sit on the suspension but in...when they decided to go with this shock (qs3r) I feel they went to the parts bin and picked what was the optional lightweight spring (previously)...

I suppose if you are 220ish or more...not an issue...and heavier guys ...there are heavier springs Im pretty sure...
travis have you fully stroked to check for interference or hitting? what would be cool is where that new rid adjusted up and down the drops so to create multiple ranges of the adjuster block!

 

[ClutchMaster]

And bottoming is solved with shocks not springs. At least by me it is.

I’m talking just a spring change compared to moving the blocks lower, all other things being equal.
Most guys don’t monkey around with shock valving. I totally agree that if you want to get the most out of your sled a valving change for light weight riders is one of the best mods you can do. Most sleds are set up for heavy riders because the factory doesn’t want suspensions bottoming out causing damage/ warranty work.
They make progressive rate springs for a reason so preventing bottoming is actually a combination of both springs and valving.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Lots of reasons for suspension sag and why it helps with ride and traction. Guys who crank up their suspensions to sit really high are foolish, hey but you look cool tho!

A properly set up suspension will “drop out” when coming off a bump maintaining contact with the ground for as long as possible. This is most noticeable when going around corners with stutter bumps. If your set up stiff the rear end will wash out in a corner much easier.

Most OEM valving I have had to pull ALOT of rebound dampening out of the shocks because of the fact I set my springs very soft, I’m only 160lbs. You would not believe the difference in ride quality due to the fact the suspension doesn’t “pack up” in the tunnel. I soften the rebound until the sled feels bouncy then add some back in to get it just right.
Usually only a small change on the compression stack as I don’t mind a stiffer ride.

For drag racing I pull a ton of compression valving out as this will aid with transfer hugely.
If you don’t agree put a blown shock in the rear of your skid and see if you can keep the front end down.

 

[Never Satisfied]

Here’s a peak at what I’ve been working at. Basically its a bolt on linkage kit that relocates the adjuster blocks to reduce preload. No drilling, welding, bending...just bolt it in! Have a 140 and 165 rider coming over saturday to do some sit in measurements with the prototype.

You can’t expect a sled to transfer if its too stiff to yield propper sag.

View attachment 134141

This is effectively what Hygear does to the springs, they put the long end in the press and change the angle from midpoint on.

 

[hibshman25]

This is effectively what Hygear does to the springs, they put the long end in the press and change the angle from midpoint on.

Yes, which is partially why I felt this is the way to go. They are suspension experts....not me. My solution is more versitile though. I plan to offer at least two sets of holes in the relocate plates for the adjuster blocks. Maybe 3 if space permits. This will provide several levels of preload. The other nice thing is if you do a saddle bag trip or later add a seat jack you can easily go back to stock location without having to swap springs. The relocate installs easily with suspension still in the sled. In addition it will be easier on the wallet too!

 

[Never Satisfied]

Agreed,

 

[**sj**]

Yes, which is partially why I felt this is the way to go. They are suspension experts....not me. My solution is more versitile though. I plan to offer at least two sets of holes in the relocate plates for the adjuster blocks. Maybe 3 if space permits. This will provide several levels of preload. The other nice thing is if you do a saddle bag trip or later add a seat jack you can easily go back to stock location without having to swap springs. The relocate installs easily with suspension still in the sled. In addition it will be easier on the wallet too!

look up at my prior post ^^^this is getting scary travis!

royalties???? lmao

 

[snowbeast]

Here’s a peak at what I’ve been working at. Basically its a bolt on linkage kit that relocates the adjuster blocks to reduce preload. No drilling, welding, bending...just bolt it in! Have a 140 and 165 rider coming over saturday to do some sit in measurements with the prototype.

You can’t expect a sled to transfer if its too stiff to yield propper sag.

View attachment 134141

Can you draw a arrow to the part you made,so it is a little more clear. Thanks

 

[stevewithOCD]

This is effectively what Hygear does to the springs, they put the long end in the press and change the angle from midpoint on.

Not the one i got from Hygear. It's .5mm thinner with smaller coils & one extra coil. It's in the machine, but with the sled off the ground i don't see a bend.

 

[**sj**]

Not the one i got from Hygear. It's .5mm thinner with smaller coils & one extra coil. It's in the machine, but with the sled off the ground i don't see a bend.

So .5mm thinner (.357?) , One extra coil? What did you mean smaller coils?

 

[stevewithOCD]

I wrote a previous post here. The outer approximate width of the coil that the spring has that goes around the shaft. Hygear wraps around 8 times compared to 7 for stock.

Stock coil = 2 7/8ths or 70mm
Hygear = 2 1/4 or 56mm