My RTX LE 50th BUILD THREAD-ROCKERDAN

[ROCKERDAN]

I live in Parry Sound and work all over the US. Was supposed to head to Ohio last week, not gonna happen quite yet!

Wow, yeah this is bad. Wallet is getting very thin!! I know the border is only open to essential crossing now, i worry that I wont be able to come back up here for a very long time! I sure hope next fall for sled season things are back to normal!

 

[Fast]

Been so bored here at cottage still self isolating....I have been playing around with iMovie. I apologize there are no Winders in the video as most of you know I rode a 850 doo this season. There is my Yamaha Viper cover though! LOL.

Still something for sledheads to watch since we are all so bored.

Dan

Great video Dan, whats the chance of giving us an honest review on the doo 850 steering and ride quality?

 

[stevewithOCD]

Dan, you do a great job!
I suck at it.
I have a couple crappy pics & an awkward story of my underwear on backwards.

P.S: There is NO hole in the back of underwear..........................until you put them on backwards

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Great video Dan, whats the chance of giving us an honest review on the doo 850 steering and ride quality?

I try to always tell it like it is....I find the problem with forums is many guys ride one brand always and don't swap or try other brands, so they end up cheerleading for their brands, and so if you post anything negative about their brand on their site, guys get mad. Understandable as sledheads are a rare breed of people, very picky for sure.

I like TY alot more than DT for certain. I find the people on DT are mostly VERY stuck in their opinions. The 4s guys and 2s guys are always going back and forth at eachother. There are a small handful of guys that just keep saying the same thing over and over, so I found out how to "ignore" posts in the DT settings, making life alot easier over there. However i rarely post over there anymore due to this. Certainly alot nicer over here. Guys here all work together with the 998, be it Cat or Yam. I like the comradery better here.

SO I just wanted to preface my thoughts on the 850 with that....

So I went from my 129 Winder with Tune, to a bone stock 850 129 XRS. I will say, "where you ride" and "type of trails you ride" and how you ride are the biggest factor in sled choice. My local area is tightly wooded, twisty, and quite hilly....so lots of on/off throttle and sharp 90 degree corners. Also being that Muskoka is the largest resort/cottage region close to the megalopolis of Toronto, you can certainly bet on some pounded out trails/traffic by end of the weekends. With that being said, the Winder was NOT the best choice for me, but it was certainly incredible for our Qc trips on their big super highway trails.

Beginning of season, first thing I noticed the first ride was the instant snap of the 2s engine. I always thought my Tuned Winder 998 was snappy once tuned with Daves early spool tune. But these 850 2s engines are so snappy they make the 998 feel laggy. Yes it really jumped out at me first ride. Secondly at same time, that first ride when I snapped throttle, the skis went straight to the sky. Something I never could get the 998 to do. Now many people may not like this, but for tight rough trails this makes for the most fun/playful sled ever. I instantly thought of my old YZ 125 motocross bikes from my younger years, the 850 just feels like a light YZ bike, Funfactor off the charts.

On one busy Saturday we did a big ride up a powerline trail to whitney....It had to be 35 miles of 3foot moguls. Just packed with sleds and pounded out. That was the day I truly felt the weight benefit 100%. A day like that you can ride super slow and never arrive, or pound it hard skipping the tops of the massive moguls. My riding partner is hardcore and we tend to push things. On the Winder I may have went 1/3 of the way before sweating too much and would have to slow down, but this 850XRS is just like a toy in comparison, we pounded it through there to Whitney passing many many groups, and I barely broke a sweat, just incredible the punishment I put this sled through. And in the end not being beat up myself. I use the word "effortless" all the time when riding it. Ive rode alot of 4s sleds mostly exclusively since 2006 and they were all heavy, so that is why I can ride this sled MUCH faster through the junk then any previous sled.

Another aspect I sorta miss actually.....I did not even open my tool box all winter. LOL. As shown in this thread I enjoy wrenching, modding ect....but this 850 was gas n go. 2400 miles only but we had our season cut short with weather then CV19, so it would have been closer to 3500 miles easy. So when comparing the money and work I put into my Winder vs this sled, well there is no comparison. DOO does a nice job on their sleds. The sled looks brand new still at end of season, no chips, no loose rivets, skid looks mint. Idlers all perfect. No other sled brand seems to look this perfect after a season or two or more....Automotive quality for sure IMO.

There are some negatives for sure, and Im the first to state them. First and foremost its a 2s engine, every morning I start it up I must get it out of garage as fast as I can, the smoke is one thing that absolutely bugs me! While the etec is the cleanest idling 2s made, it still smells abit. Burning oil in general just bugs me, the quantity of oil used is also a big negative for me. 100 to 125 miles per quart of oil sucks for sure. But I do buy it in bulk from dealer at a much discounted 5 gallon jug cost. And this cost total for 2400 mile season was cheaper then just a set of clutch arms for my Winder, so I try to keep the oil costs in perspective. I spent thousands on my Winder, so the 175 for oil was actually chump change. LOL. Locally the oil tank works well going a good long day and coming home with half tank still, but oil becomes a bigger issue on our Qc trips. I used a mid size tail bag(seen in video) which I was able to put 4 quarts of oil into easily with room to spare, and still use my gas caddy with stacked LinQ bag for luggage. So the oil on trip worked out well.

Power of the Doo 850 is really good. It does beat the Poo 850 from this season by a bit. I would say my sled actually feels faster and more snappy and fun on my tight trail system then my Winder did. Due to having such instant throttle response, it can snap corner to corner faster than I could on my Winder. It has a much meatier power band then my previous 2s(800 etec-2014). Now when we went up to Qc on those big trails, I certainly missed the mighty 998 with tune! We saw alot of 998s up north, and that is where the 998 is right at home. As I said initially, buy the sled for where you ride, and if I lived on those big super highway trails, I would own the 998. Where the 850 tails off around 100-110 the Winder is still pulling like a freight train. In Qc i was able to hold the 850 for long long stretches and those areas I could have used more for sure! But it did impress me using one belt all season with no belt or clutch issues, and motor seems to love being held WOT for as long as I wanted. I will say I would not own ANY 2s without warranty, and will not keep one of these 850s past 2 seasons or approx 5000 miles.

I do feel the g4 pushes more than it should on our tight trails when softer. Bud installed Pilot R skis and his pushed alot less, so the updates coming from doo for next season for 21 should be welcome. New pilot skis with longer/deeper keel and new RasX front end with wider stance and more travel, along with new RasX rear skid with more travel which reviews have said to handle much flatter with zero twitch. For me the handling on mine is great, but the new ones should be even better.

In the end, its not a "muscle" sled with huge turbo power. If you recall I was one to say my "stock" Winder felt very slow. It was not snappy, felt heavy and took too long to spool....The Hurricane tune made my Winder what a turbo sled should be, but stock it was not impressive. So stock for stock I think the 850 doo is a much more dynamic sled to ride everywhere with exception of ABOVE 100mph, then the Winder is more fun....But add a tune to the Winder as most guys do, then it becomes a monster all over. Certainly different feeling sleds for sure so it comes down to where and how you ride. I know when I retire and likely will ride more weekdays(not weekends) when trails are smooth, and will do alot more trips to Qc, I would likely be back on a 998 4s for sure. Buddy tried a 900t doo this season which I rode alot, and that sled is really nice overall, reminds me alot of the Winder in weight "feel".....If the 900t doo had a proper throttle we all would have liked it better, but due to that iTC, NONE of us like it much at all and he certainly will be selling it.

Ill keep the 850 another season as I'm typically on a 2yr plan....I always keep an eye on all the brands as I get bored. Its too bad cat does not seem to want to fix anything. And right now the new POO Matryx has caught my eye, I like the gauge Tech alot, and their fit/finish is now on parr with DOO. Will be watching how their 850 fares next winter and maybe even try one in '21. I'm less brand loyal then ever and like to try them all, and POO is the only brand I have NEVER owned yet!

Dan

 

[stevewithOCD]

I'd say you summed it up perfectly!
Although i bought a 600 for a variety of personnel reasons, i was seriously considering an 850 & just trading it in every other year which would be 7,000 to 10,000 miles for me.
My work cut us to 3 days a week so i'll be riding a 600 next year.

I was also considering a 2020 Red Winder, but i'd HAVE to tune it & do all the fixes which is just TONS of time & money.

In Gaspe, the oil concerned me.
I thought being in Canada there would be Doo oil everywhere. I was wrong.
If there is a dealer in the town, the gas stations don't sell it and we pulled in after hours everywhere.
I didn't have to put another brand of oil in, nor do i sweat doing it, but i'd like to keep the Doo oil in there.

I did miss the Winder on the big ones though, but considering wind, snow & fuel mileage runs, the opportunities were less than you'd think.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I'd say you summed it up perfectly!
Although i bought a 600 for a variety of personnel reasons, i was seriously considering an 850 & just trading it in every other year which would be 7,000 to 10,000 miles for me.
My work cut us to 3 days a week so i'll be riding a 600 next year.

I was also considering a 2020 Red Winder, but i'd HAVE to tune it & do all the fixes which is just TONS of time & money.

In Gaspe, the oil concerned me.
I thought being in Canada there would be Doo oil everywhere. I was wrong.
If there is a dealer in the town, the gas stations don't sell it and we pulled in after hours everywhere.
I didn't have to put another brand of oil in, nor do i sweat doing it, but i'd like to keep the Doo oil in there.

I did miss the Winder on the big ones though, but considering wind, snow & fuel mileage runs, the opportunities were less than you'd think.

Hey Brother....

I think where you live and ride its alot harder to step back to a 2s. Bigger trail systems similar to Northern Qc when we head there are so darn wide open, long and fast! Going back to back from a Winder would be worse, but since I've become more used to my 850 and have not rode a Winder since last winter, the power feels OK as you do get used to things on big trails, but locally here the power is really great corner to corner, super snappy throttle response.

You just have to be OK with knowing it could blow up, always have a rope and a bud with you on trips. Worse part is IF you ruin a trip, but under warranty BRP typically will get you back on trail quickly. A good dealer helps for sure. So always always always be under the warranty with ANY 2s sled IMO. Once you come to grips with that, the actual riding and fun factor are more appreciated. Top speed freaks will never be truly satisfied so you need to be OK with that. For my area these XRS sleds truly are the correct sled to own, while the 4s really is just not.

Oil is my biggest pet peeve for sure.....what I did was buy the fuel caddy as Im a 129 guy and only have one spot for Linq. So I planned to use the fuel caddy for OIL rather than fuel. This would be for longer saddlebag trips over 700 miles or so....So you can put several gallons of oil if you want into the caddy, and stack your luggage on top. This last trip in particular, we only had a 3 day weekend including drive time. So I knew we only had approx 2.5 days of riding or approx 13-15hrs we rode total. Up north we can make time fast as you are going 80+mph constantly for hours, only stopping for fuel.

I knew for our last trip I only would need approx 2 or 3 EXTRA quarts of oil beyond the sled oil tank, which holds 3.6qt. I buy my oil in bulk at a great discounted 5 gal jug price($35/gal) at home, & don't want to spend upwards of 80$/gal in Qc. I have two diff "tail bags", one very small for around home here which attaches to rear of seat, looks good and holds smaller items. It will hold 1 qt if needed max. But the medium size tail bag for the Mxz I borrowed from buddy, it easily holds 4 quarts and has more room left for items. Easily removable and accessible and leaves the tunnel open for any other LinQ bags. So I brought 3 quarts additional and had plenty for this trip. So really oil is a non issue, worse comes to worse most fuel stations have oil even if its not XPS oil it will get you by usually, but I do try to run the doo oil primarily as it seems to keep rave valves clean and working well.

Dan


Open tunnel, notice LinQ bracket on battery cover(for tailbag)

My small tail bag for around home....

5 Gal XPS jug...

Medium Tailbag....

3 quarts oil into medium tailbag...room to spare.

All loaded up.....used caddy for FUEL this trip but a longer trip could take lots more oil right in fuel caddy. Notice buds 137 gade with 2 LinQ spots, lots more room for gear and that is a 900t 4s so no oil needed.

 

[74Nitro]

Thanks for the review Dan.
I notice the 'ribs' pressed into the tunnel on the Doo. That adds a LOT of strength, and is something needed in the Winder tunnels.
As far as two stroke vs four stroke, I think we can look at the current crop of 850's and and 800's and say that these sleds are at the top of their game performance-wise.
I don't think I can say that about any manufacturer of current four strokes.
What do I mean by this? I look at the 850's and 800's and I see that the engine is maxed, and every part of the machine has been thought out for light weight and maximum efficiency.
I can't quite say that about any four stroke ever made. The Nytro came close engine-wise, but it could have been lighter and the rider position wasn't good enough. The Viper was closer, but actually went a little backwards in engine performance.
The two closest sleds so far are the 1200 Doo and the Winder. Problem with the Doo was it lacked throttle response and it should have been bumped to a full 1200 with 160 plus HP.
The Winder is so very close and just needs a bit more refining in a few areas. I also think that weight could be shaved off the Winder without sacrificing reliability or adding cost.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Thanks for the review Dan.
I notice the 'ribs' pressed into the tunnel on the Doo. That adds a LOT of strength, and is something needed in the Winder tunnels.
As far as two stroke vs four stroke, I think we can look at the current crop of 850's and and 800's and say that these sleds are at the top of their game performance-wise.
I don't think I can say that about any manufacturer of current four strokes.
What do I mean by this? I look at the 850's and 800's and I see that the engine is maxed, and every part of the machine has been thought out for light weight and maximum efficiency.
I can't quite say that about any four stroke ever made. The Nytro came close engine-wise, but it could have been lighter and the rider position wasn't good enough. The Viper was closer, but actually went a little backwards in engine performance.
The two closest sleds so far are the 1200 Doo and the Winder. Problem with the Doo was it lacked throttle response and it should have been bumped to a full 1200 with 160 plus HP.
The Winder is so very close and just needs a bit more refining in a few areas. I also think that weight could be shaved off the Winder without sacrificing reliability or adding cost.

Agree with you.....the 850s are really "turn-key" performance sleds and just buy/ride.

The LinQ system is nice as it does not touch tunnel, those brackets are attached to edges where strength is and so you don't even get scratches or rubbing in center of tunnel anywhere....but yeah the ribs help alot for strength too.

Dan

 

[74Nitro]

Agree with you.....the 850s are really "turn-key" performance sleds and just buy/ride.

The LinQ system is nice as it does not touch tunnel, those brackets are attached to edges where strength is and so you don't even get scratches or rubbing in center of tunnel anywhere....but yeah the ribs help alot for strength too.

Dan

Kimpex just recently came out with a similar system they call 'Connect'.
https://catalogues.kimpex.com/Kimpex-Connect/en-ca/

 

[Sevey]

Hey Brother....

I think where you live and ride its alot harder to step back to a 2s. Bigger trail systems similar to Northern Qc when we head there are so darn wide open, long and fast! Going back to back from a Winder would be worse, but since I've become more used to my 850 and have not rode a Winder since last winter, the power feels OK as you do get used to things on big trails, but locally here the power is really great corner to corner, super snappy throttle response.

You just have to be OK with knowing it could blow up, always have a rope and a bud with you on trips. Worse part is IF you ruin a trip, but under warranty BRP typically will get you back on trail quickly. A good dealer helps for sure. So always always always be under the warranty with ANY 2s sled IMO. Once you come to grips with that, the actual riding and fun factor are more appreciated. Top speed freaks will never be truly satisfied so you need to be OK with that. For my area these XRS sleds truly are the correct sled to own, while the 4s really is just not.

Oil is my biggest pet peeve for sure.....what I did was buy the fuel caddy as Im a 129 guy and only have one spot for Linq. So I planned to use the fuel caddy for OIL rather than fuel. This would be for longer saddlebag trips over 700 miles or so....So you can put several gallons of oil if you want into the caddy, and stack your luggage on top. This last trip in particular, we only had a 3 day weekend including drive time. So I knew we only had approx 2.5 days of riding or approx 13-15hrs we rode total. Up north we can make time fast as you are going 80+mph constantly for hours, only stopping for fuel.

I knew for our last trip I only would need approx 2 or 3 EXTRA quarts of oil beyond the sled oil tank, which holds 3.6qt. I buy my oil in bulk at a great discounted 5 gal jug price($35/gal) at home, & don't want to spend upwards of 80$/gal in Qc. I have two diff "tail bags", one very small for around home here which attaches to rear of seat, looks good and holds smaller items. It will hold 1 qt if needed max. But the medium size tail bag for the Mxz I borrowed from buddy, it easily holds 4 quarts and has more room left for items. Easily removable and accessible and leaves the tunnel open for any other LinQ bags. So I brought 3 quarts additional and had plenty for this trip. So really oil is a non issue, worse comes to worse most fuel stations have oil even if its not XPS oil it will get you by usually, but I do try to run the doo oil primarily as it seems to keep rave valves clean and working well.

Dan


Open tunnel, notice LinQ bracket on battery cover(for tailbag)
View attachment 154906

My small tail bag for around home....
View attachment 154898

View attachment 154899

5 Gal XPS jug...
View attachment 154900


Medium Tailbag....
View attachment 154902
3 quarts oil into medium tailbag...room to spare.
View attachment 154903
View attachment 154904

All loaded up.....used caddy for FUEL this trip but a longer trip could take lots more oil right in fuel caddy. Notice buds 137 gade with 2 LinQ spots, lots more room for gear and that is a 900t 4s so no oil needed.
View attachment 154905

Hey Dan,
Enjoy the posts, i agree with your observations about DT. We are lucky we have a core group of guys here that are super constructive. Frankly we take it for granted.

Thought i would share - I have been working with Up North Technologies on my daughters Indy EVO and discovered they make a bracket to get 2 linq mounting positions on a 129 Mxz doo or polaris xc. Your mxz was pretty tricked out but having another mounting position is never a bad thing.

Question - if you were to do a trip to qc, left with a full tank of oil and carried 4.5 litres extra - is that enough to do 2000km?

Interested in how much you need to lug on the big trips.
MS

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Hey Dan,
Enjoy the posts, i agree with your observations about DT. We are lucky we have a core group of guys here that are super constructive. Frankly we take it for granted.

Thought i would share - I have been working with Up North Technologies on my daughters Indy EVO and discovered they make a bracket to get 2 linq mounting positions on a 129 Mxz doo or polaris xc. Your mxz was pretty tricked out but having another mounting position is never a bad thing.

Question - if you were to do a trip to qc, left with a full tank of oil and carried 4.5 litres extra - is that enough to do 2000km?

Interested in how much you need to lug on the big trips.
MS

I had seen that double mount system from Up North Tech. Lots of great options out there for sure. I was always a fan of the smaller brackets which I used on my Winder from Whiteout tech.

I now have the stackable setup for caddy and bag on the Doo. I see lots of POO owners using the linq system which there are adapters available for their slots. I see Poo has made a new system for the Matryx which looks pretty slick, but so many guys own Linq bags already.

The thing about Northern Qc riding and oil/fuel economy is those trails are fast. We make incredible time at the constant fast pace we ride up there piling on miles so fast. From Amos(St. Felix gas station) to Matagami we ran from full tank to running out of fuel in no time. No stops in between, that is the only spot the fuel Caddy is needed. Many say you can make that stretch(St.Felix to Matagami) without running out. I will say those who do make it without running out of fuel are likely at cruising speeds. But its very hard to not be running very big speeds on that section as its so wide open and a blast to be running 80-100 all the time. It was weird to fill up to brim, and run sled and then run out of fuel so fast. Caddy is a must there. Bud on 900t ran out about 1/2 mile before I did. We were only 5- 10 miles or so from Matagami. So cruising speeds would likely get you there.

On the 850 I use the MPG mode all the time. Around Muskoka hammering all the time average around 13.8mpg, now if I ride sane speeds I have seen it average at 17mpg. Etec is really good on fuel if you don't hammer it all the time, but when you do the extra injector kicks in every WOT hit. Now on the Qc trip my Average mpg on gauge was only 11.2mpg....so that shows how much more fuel is getting used when going the big speeds up top on those super highway trails.

As for oil, that usage is a direct correlation to fuel economy. Around home where I average 13-14mpg I get approx 125miles per quart. While up in Qc I believe I was closer to 100miles MAX per quart. Tank holds 3.6Qrts and I took 3 extra with me. So for 2000km(1240miles) you will need 12.5quarts most likely. So for that type of longer trip I would consider using the fuel caddy as an oil caddy. It would give you plenty(15 quarts) of capacity over and above the 3.6 quart tank on sled. If you have more spots on tunnel, you can buy a oil caddy(black) which is smaller then the fuel caddy but NON stackable, can only go on TOP of fuel caddy....so with a GADE you can use fuel and oil stacked and then luggage on second holder.

I know for us we usually only can go for 3 days max time....so 3 or 4 extra quarts works out for me.

The remaining areas around Northern Qc trails are all very good for fuel stops, it's really only that one stretch that is bad for running dry. Some map pics below.

Dan

 

[Rtbo]

I rode that section this year. Its 111 miles. I pulled into gas station on fumes

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I rode that section this year. Its 111 miles. I pulled into gas station on fumes

The distance is not that bad overall, and I have gone well over 110 miles many times without running out of fuel, so it just goes to show how much more fuel the sled consumes when running 80+mph for so long. I know in my truck the MPG falls drastically when I just go up from 60mph to 70mph. Engines need to eat!

 

[Rtbo]

I agree. We slowed down on the last 1/3 to conserve. We had fuel but didn’t want to use it and it was below 0f

 

[ClutchMaster]

Wow great review RD! Thanks for sticking around and love your posts!
I had zero trail miles this year on my Procross, I had arm surgery and was healing most of the winter. I did manage to get out some and run my older F3 and SRX (much easier turning force than my Viper). I agree, the instant power from the 2 strokes is really noticeable coming off a turbo sled, more fun in the tight stuff 4 sure.

Cheers, CM