SRX vs 2022 Mach Z

[Sledroll]

So the banjo tight comment is referring to the belt deflection on the Cats.. The primary clutch has a idler bearing where the belt sits at idle. Not the sheaves but the middle shaft is wear the belt sits(bearing). The belt is extremely tight in the Cat clutches, and this bearing allows this to happen. So the clutching starts(engages) in a very low gear so to speak because of the tight belt.

Do the SW's primary have the same bearing ?
If so ,could you not just put in a tighter belt ?
But I always thought that made it squeal or/and creep .

 

[jonlafon1]

Most seem to think they have to run different gears for this "low end snap". It certainly will help, and it is very logical. BUT if your willing to drop weight in your primary and add more helix angle it will wake up the lazy (down low)35 helix IMO.. If your looking for big up top numbers the 35 is the one.. But for more snap in the Winder look to break the mold some and drop weight and add helix angle.. More then one way to skin a thunder cat?

 

[jonlafon1]

Do the SW's primary have the same bearing ?
If so ,could you not just put in a tighter belt ?
But I always thought that made it squeal or/and creep .

The Yamaha does not have this bearing and yes if you ran your belt like the Cat's do you would ruin your belt and hear squeal and the sled would creep for sure.

 

[Sledroll]

Most seem to think they have to run different gears for this "low end snap". It certainly will help, and it seems very logical. BUT if your willing to drop weight in your primary and add more helix angle it will wake up the lazy 35 helix IMO.. If your looking for big up top numbers the 35 is the one.. But for more snap in the Winder look to break the mold some and drop weight and add helix angle.. More then one way to skin a thunder cat?

Didn't the Yamaha update 2 stage helix address that ?
I put it in my 17 and it seemed to help and left it in when the 240 Hurricane tune was added , with empty Daltons .

 

[jonlafon1]

Didn't the Yamaha update 2 stage helix address that ?
I put it in my 17 and it seemed to help

Not sure what the angle of the 2 stage is? Maybe 35/39? .. I'm talking about running helix angle OVER 40 on the Sidewinder for more down low 0-100 MPH

 

[SledFreak]

So the banjo tight comment is referring to the belt deflection on the Cats.. The primary clutch has a idler bearing where the belt sits at idle. Not the sheaves but the middle shaft is wear the belt sits(bearing). The belt is extremely tight in the Cat clutches, and this bearing allows this to happen. So the clutching starts(engages) in a very low gear so to speak because of the tight belt.

and to just add to this it also allows the belt to sit much higher in the secondary, which results in a lot more snap off the line. It also becomes maintenance free as you never have to screw with the belt deflection. So, because of the clutches and gearing it was the main reasons why I went with the TCAT instead of the SRX, because I really don't like colours of the TCAT. Plus, it was 3 grand cheaper! lol. However, that also has a lot do with having a 1 year warranty vs a 4 year!

 

[sideshowBob]

Not sure what the angle of the 2 stage is? Maybe 35/39? .. I'm talking about running helix angle OVER 40 on the Sidewinder for more down low 0-100 MPH

When you increase the Helix angle from 35 degrees to 40 degrees you are actually upshifting the clutches faster and this can sometimes and usually does create a lazier feel under part throttle as its not unlike putting your car in a higher gear sooner.
Higher angle is a steeper ramp profile and lower angle is a shallower angle that allows the engine to rev higher under acceleration.
Yamaha has chosen on the SW to have a 35/39 helix to allow the sled to initially rev faster to build boost then accelerate faster once the power has built up.

 

[jonlafon1]

When you increase the Helix angle from 35 degrees to 40 degrees you are actually upshifting the clutches faster and this can sometimes and usually does create a lazier feel under part throttle as its not unlike putting your car in a higher gear sooner.
Higher angle is a shallower ramp profile and lower angle is a steeper angle that allows the engine to rev higher under acceleration.

Yes they do upshift quicker with more angle for sure. Not sure about lazier feel under part throttle? So your saying cruising at say 40-50 MPH is lazy?
That could be with flatter profile weights, I have not tried 45 helix with daltons and I don't doubt it may not work at all.. The Heavy hitters aggressive profile and KEEPING middle tuning hole on the weight empty really changes the shift up and down.. It makes the weight upshift crazy hard and helps a lot with backshift with a higher helix angle.. I would describe the higher helix and WAY less weight set up as "violent" .. I understand guys just cant get past the idea of not running heavy weights.. AND NO DOUBT it works and it may just be the Heavy Hitter profile and more helix that makes it work?

 

[jonlafon1]

Higher angle is a shallower ramp profile and lower angle is a steeper angle that allows the engine to rev higher under acceleration.

Not sure I follow this?
The higher the helix number the steeper the ramp and the faster it upshifts.. Higher helix number - steeper angle backshifts slower

 

[sideshowBob]

Yes they do upshift quicker with more angle for sure. Not sure about lazier feel under part throttle? So your saying cruising at say 40-50 MPH is lazy?
That could be with flatter profile weights, I have not tried 45 helix with daltons and I don't doubt it may not work at all.. The Heavy hitters aggressive profile and KEEPING middle tuning hole on the weight empty really changes the shift up and down.. It makes the weight upshift crazy hard and helps a lot with backshift with a higher helix angle.. I would describe the higher helix and WAY less weight set up as "violent" .. I understand guys just cant get past the idea of not running heavy weights.. AND NO DOUBT it works and it may just be the Heavy Hitter profile and more helix that makes it work?

All true. If you ONLY increase your helix angle you will upshift faster, load the motor more, and most likely create a less responsive throttle feel. Once you start changing Helix angles AND adjusting weight profiles the sky is the limit...thats what tuning is all about...finding the right combination.

 

[sideshowBob]

Not sure I follow this?
The higher the helix number the steeper the ramp and the faster it upshifts.. Higher helix number - steeper angle backshifts slower

LOL...I corrected the post

 

[Racy2]

and to just add to this it also allows the belt to sit much higher in the secondary, which results in a lot more snap off the line. It also becomes maintenance free as you never have to screw with the belt deflection. So, because of the clutches and gearing it was the main reasons why I went with the TCAT instead of the SRX, because I really don't like colours of the TCAT. Plus, it was 3 grand cheaper! lol. However, that also has a lot do with having a 1 year warranty vs a 4 year!

The color of the TCat is what made me go with the SRX and I really wanted the EPS. Do not like the grey at all. Although there are a few people on HCore that say it looks better in person.

 

[jonlafon1]

Hijacked with clutching! My bad...

 

[jonlafon1]

The color of the TCat is what made me go with the SRX and I really wanted the EPS. Do not like the grey at all. Although there are a few people on HCore that say it looks better in person.

I do not like red BUT that SRX with white and red is TIGHT!! Bet it looks killer on snow! Good choice

 

[sideshowBob]

The Yamaha does not have this bearing and yes if you ran your belt like the Cat's do you would ruin your belt and hear squeal and the sled would creep for sure.

In the 60's and 70's a lot of the sleds had a primary clutch idler bearing the belt ran on at idle. I always wondered why they went away from the idler bearing.
Here's an example on the 1972 Moto Ski clutch.

I am done hijacking the thread now as well.