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Yamaha Cutting Production for 2019

Personally I think Textron will divest the sled division in the near future. If a person did much research into the purchase of Cat by Textron it was pretty evident they wanted two things... 1) The dealer network and 2) The dirt products. The fact that they have removed the Arctic Cat name from all dirt products speaks volumes as far as I am concerned.

It also makes sense why Yamaha didn’t purchase the entire company. They didn’t want or need the dirt products. They also don’t need the dealer network. The only piece of Cat that they might be interested in is the snow division. So many patents and engineering resources to go along with a purchase like that as well. Plus they get a good name brand for sleds. Going forward it would make sense to sell Cats as their 2 stroke brand and Yamaha as their 4 Stroke brand.

I’m not sure if any of this will happen, but I honestly believe that Textron will eventually want to divest the snow products.
 

yamajammer76 said:
Personally I think Textron will divest the sled division in the near future. If a person did much research into the purchase of Cat by Textron it was pretty evident they wanted two things... 1) The dealer network and 2) The dirt products. The fact that they have removed the Arctic Cat name from all dirt products speaks volumes as far as I am concerned.

It also makes sense why Yamaha didn’t purchase the entire company. They didn’t want or need the dirt products. They also don’t need the dealer network. The only piece of Cat that they might be interested in is the snow division. So many patents and engineering resources to go along with a purchase like that as well. Plus they get a good name brand for sleds. Going forward it would make sense to sell Cats as their 2 stroke brand and Yamaha as their 4 Stroke brand.

I’m not sure if any of this will happen, but I honestly believe that Textron will eventually want to divest the snow products.
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I agree but that was 3 years ago. Now the cat chassis feels old even in Winder form compared to the narrow feel of Gen4 and Axis. Let’s hope this was just a stop gap measure on Yamaha’s part and they build a new chassis in Japan or at Cat sled Factory if they buy it. But it has to be a real Yamaha motor not some 9-10000 rpm turbo. That’s not Yamaha way.
 
cannondale27 said:
I agree but that was 3 years ago. Now the cat chassis feels old even in Winder form compared to the narrow feel of Gen4 and Axis. Let’s hope this was just a stop gap measure on Yamaha’s part and they build a new chassis in Japan or at Cat sled Factory if they buy it. But it has to be a real Yamaha motor not some 9-10000 rpm turbo. That’s not Yamaha way.
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Just curious....Do you not like the new sidewinder motor package?
 
VX1R said:
I'm going to throw my thoughts as to Yamaha's next step with their sleds......

Last year was the year of the SideWinder. Most stock HP ever from an OEM. The SW along with the AC 9000 series has raised the bar for the top performance category.

This season they've taken the initiative along with Arctic Cat to go after the entry level kids sleds with the SnoScoot. This is a pretty bold move and I applaud their efforts and hope that their investment in the bottom level category will be a long term success to get more riders involved in the sport.

What's next?

2-strokes seem out of the question with their commitment to 4-strokes. They seem pretty happy with the growing acceptance of the mountain market now that they've got a decent AC mountain chassis with the excellent turbo powerplant.

They seem content with their line of utility sleds with the recently refreshed VK series and the touring class is covered with the Venture series.

There's still a lot of guys who are pining for a replacement for their beloved Apex 4-cylinder motor, but my thoughts are that Yamaha views the SW power plant as the Apex replacement.

This leaves the meat of the market, the 600 class. Will we see a new Japanese model that addresses this class, or will it be another joint effort with AC?

Hard to say, but my money is their next new models will be aimed squarely at the 600 class with a few new twists.

It should only be another four months or so before we know.
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I agree with everything you are saying except the mountain part. I ride the mountains and back country of the UP and it doesn't matter what Yamaha model you have, everyone will talk crap about it even the sidewinders. I here more people complain when a Yamaha is riding in there group. I even had a guide laugh at me and said your really riding a Yamaha in the mountains? I would say that 80% of the mountains riders out there think Yamahas need to stick to the trails. Now I think Yamaha has come a long ways in improving there sleds for the mountain but I think there could be more done too make them even better.
 
yamajammer76 said:
Personally I think Textron will divest the sled division in the near future. If a person did much research into the purchase of Cat by Textron it was pretty evident they wanted two things... 1) The dealer network and 2) The dirt products. The fact that they have removed the Arctic Cat name from all dirt products speaks volumes as far as I am concerned.

It also makes sense why Yamaha didn’t purchase the entire company. They didn’t want or need the dirt products. They also don’t need the dealer network. The only piece of Cat that they might be interested in is the snow division. So many patents and engineering resources to go along with a purchase like that as well. Plus they get a good name brand for sleds. Going forward it would make sense to sell Cats as their 2 stroke brand and Yamaha as their 4 Stroke brand.

I’m not sure if any of this will happen, but I honestly believe that Textron will eventually want to divest the snow products.
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I think you nailed it. These companies are in business to make a PROFIT for their stock holders -most of whom don't have a clue or much less a care for snowmobiles or their riders. They will do what the sled market performance dictates, NOT what the riders want and we should not think Poo or Doo are any different. WHen a company does what the customers want it is to increase sales and we love it. But lets not forget the real driving forces for our 'wants or wouldn't it be cool ifs'.
So I hope we continue to have Yamaha, Cat, Poo and Doo sleds but would not bet the farm or the house on it.

I will keep riding and smiling on my Reliable fun and well performing Yamaha's even if they weigh 8-10 gallons of gas more than the competition.
(I often stun the Yamaha sled critiques with a straight faced," do you ever fill you sled with GAS? Then when they answer yes, I say you do know our sleds weigh the same when I am low and you are full of fuel. How can you stand it? Then just laugh.)
 
I also am seeing Yamaha outsource more and more in engines in everything they make and it is not working out so well.
 
cannondale27 said:
I also am seeing Yamaha outsource more and more in engines in everything they make and it is not working out so well.
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Sounds like the story for many companies. Its a way for companies to try and save a dollar. The place I work does the same thing and it drives me crazy because we have all the capabilities to make the parts ourselves but its a cost thing. I used to work at a company that would out source stuff to China and our shop would be completely dead but it was still cheaper to have it made in china. Pretty sad actually to see our shop guys get sent home when we should have the jobs in our shop and not over seas. The quality was complete garbage too but the customer still bought it.
 
cannondale27 said:
No. I am resisting the added complexity of turbo and components. Yamaha doesn’t need a turbo to compete with 800’s. Therefore I see it as cheating.
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I am surprised by this Cannon.

Cheating would only be IF it was an unproven technology that might put the sled or rider at risk. Turbo charging has been in the auto 4 stroke world successfully for years, in the Diesel world even longer at decades. Personally I have been driving turbocharged trucks since 02 with over 400,000 personal miles and no turbo issues. So I view it as using available tech to blow the competition away -far away.
Now I went with a new to me Apex 13 because I loved and missed the power of my previous Apex. But if $ were the same or anywhere close I would be on the Winder, stock quiet smooth and FAST. I have ridden Agmans for 20 miles or so and others including the Yamaha Demo in Munising and loved the power, ride and handling. I trust the motors- no nightmares even rumored of to date. Heck we got way more push back on the Viper ECU issues than anything about the winder.
 
yamadoo said:
I am surprised by this Cannon.

Cheating would only be IF it was an unproven technology that might put the sled or rider at risk. Turbo charging has been in the auto 4 stroke world successfully for years, in the Diesel world even longer at decades. Personally I have been driving turbocharged trucks since 02 with over 400,000 personal miles and no turbo issues. So I view it as using available tech to blow the competition away -far away.
Now I went with a new to me Apex 13 because I loved and missed the power of my previous Apex. But if $ were the same or anywhere close I would be on the Winder, stock quiet smooth and FAST. I have ridden Agmans for 20 miles or so and others including the Yamaha Demo in Munising and loved the power, ride and handling. I trust the motors- no nightmares even rumored of to date. Heck we got way more push back on the Viper ECU issues than anything about the winder.
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It is a proven technology. Proven to be more unreliable than equivalent na. If you didn’t have trouble with your trucks you are very lucky. I agree they are way better than first go around in 80’s but who do they really satisfy? Govt.,tree huggers,people who can afford the bills to fix and maintain? That’s not me. I could care less about the tech when I am 500mi from truck or home. Heck carbs never really bothered me!
 
yamadoo said:
I am surprised by this Cannon.

Cheating would only be IF it was an unproven technology that might put the sled or rider at risk. Turbo charging has been in the auto 4 stroke world successfully for years, in the Diesel world even longer at decades. Personally I have been driving turbocharged trucks since 02 with over 400,000 personal miles and no turbo issues. So I view it as using available tech to blow the competition away -far away.
Now I went with a new to me Apex 13 because I loved and missed the power of my previous Apex. But if $ were the same or anywhere close I would be on the Winder, stock quiet smooth and FAST. I have ridden Agmans for 20 miles or so and others including the Yamaha Demo in Munising and loved the power, ride and handling. I trust the motors- no nightmares even rumored of to date. Heck we got way more push back on the Viper ECU issues than anything about the winder.
Click to expand...

Turbo is a power enhancer that is not cheating so ya lost me on the only if it was unproven tech part! If it puts the rider at risk or the sled its just dangerous. It does add complexity and a need for premium fuel and a danger of meltdown without it. Yamaha has done a good job making it safe!

I have seen many turbos with issues but most with one from pushing the envelope! I like NA for reasons such as pinning it for more then 15 seconds, running regular or premium fuel, I like stock and you know you can't leave a turbo stock. I may be forced one day to ride a turbo, If that ever happens a Thundercat would be my choice, just for the simple fact if I'm going to ride Cat, well then I'm going to ride Cat!
 
Sasquatch said:
Turbo is a power enhancer that is not cheating so ya lost me on the only if it was unproven tech part! If it puts the rider at risk or the sled its just dangerous. It does add complexity and a need for premium fuel and a danger of meltdown without it. Yamaha has done a good job making it safe!

I have seen many turbos with issues but most with one from pushing the envelope! I like NA for reasons such as pinning it for more then 15 seconds, running regular or premium fuel, I like stock and you know you can't leave a turbo stock. I may be forced one day to ride a turbo, If that ever happens a Thundercat would be my choice, just for the simple fact if I'm going to ride Cat, well then I'm going to ride Cat!
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So do you think Yamaha is a Motor Company or a Turbo Motor Company? I know what I think. Yamaha cheated. Easy cheap way to satisfy the masses. Get it?
 
What weighs more? NA Apex, or a turbo 'Winder? There's a pretty big difference in power output.
 
Last edited:
I think I get what Cannondale is saying. I haven't bought a Sidewinder, primarily because it is a turbo. Don't get me wrong, I have a turbo diesel in my 2010 Truck, and my wife has a 5 cyl turbo in her Volvo; both have been good engines so far, but I still don't totally trust them. If Yamaha would design and build a 170-180 hp NA engine that wasn't appreciably heavier than my Viper engine, and had the same durability, I would be lining up at the dealership to get one. Not being an engineer, I don't even know if such an engine is possible, but now that they have the turbo, Yamaha won't even have to try to design or build a replacement for the Apex.
 
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