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2012 AK sled build

kinger said:
Thinking about "geometry" is that all really controlled by the spindle? I know the yamicat has say reduced leverage on the arms being angled the way they are, but they are both sitting on ball joints so the castor of the arm is really not important? I guess what if I wanted to use viper arms but lower like the BDX kit then use a Polaris spindle? I really want to use those carbon spindles [emoji3]


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Those carbon spindles are $1500 and allegedly have durability issues.
 

Burandt had carbon spindles but not for long :)
The tall spindles put less stress on the upper a-arm so it can be made lighter (aluminum on skinz) but the weight of the taller spindle probably makes it heavier in total than a "normal" front end.
 
$1500!!! Damn! From our experience with both Cat spindles. We dint weigh either one. So I really can't help there. But once we leaned back the older 2015 spindle to the 27 deg of castor it worked as well as the newer 2016+ spindle.
We did have to add a couple of aluminum spacers to the tie rod end to raise it up a bit to not hit the back of the lower a-arm. We did mess around with the idea of making our own spindles like Timbersled did many years ago. But decided against it. Cost over function. Just not worth it.
There is a certain amount of really super smart engineering that goes into the factory parts, and beside the obvious id say the spindles have. They need to be pretty strong seeing the amount of force they take. In every direction no less. That being said carbon fibre is strong. But one wrong impact and it toast.
 
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Those carbon spindles wouldn't survive even one trip with me. Trees have some weird magnetism.. Well, something same kind of vision of that cat front end was in my mind too, maybe not so tall spindle but something middle of nytro and cat. I really like nytro bulkhead and stiffness of it, but weight is issue and it could be simpler. There might be idea of doing this all from apex frame, everything is going to be new so it doesn't matter that base sled is like 1000lbs.. I really like the lightness of apex engine, there is significantly difference between three and four bangers when swingin sled sideways and changing directions rapidly. Also very low center of mass. There could be an idea...
 
One theory is that the Apex Engine is spinning the opposite direction of the clutch due to the gear reduction, and that might cancel out a bit of the rotating mass.

Jakelfin said:
Those carbon spindles wouldn't survive even one trip with me. Trees have some weird magnetism.. Well, something same kind of vision of that cat front end was in my mind too, maybe not so tall spindle but something middle of nytro and cat. I really like nytro bulkhead and stiffness of it, but weight is issue and it could be simpler. There might be idea of doing this all from apex frame, everything is going to be new so it doesn't matter that base sled is like 1000lbs.. I really like the lightness of apex engine, there is significantly difference between three and four bangers when swingin sled sideways and changing directions rapidly. Also very low center of mass. There could be an idea...
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I might sell the Nytro motor from the sled I just got and look for a used Apex. Be easier to build two of the exact same sled. Still pondering motor decisions.

I did start collecting driveline parts at least
 
The Rotating mass weight issues as I understand it is the Work needed to get the "rotation going". It takes power to rotate or move so the more weight/mass you have the more work you must do to get it rotating/ moving.

Now the opposite rotation of movement issue would be likely to affect vibration, rotational forces /moments and balance not the work or power needed to get the motor moving. Not sure these are 30 some year old thoughts or files so you younger guys can correct my errors. LOL

Simple example. 5 pounds on the chassis takes much less extra horsepower to get the sled moving a certain speed than 5 pounds on jackshaft/clutch which is rotating mass.
 
It's not guaranteed I'll do the 4 cylinder, especially since I have all the Nytro stuff, but I am considering it.

First thing is sorting out the driveline which I've been working on. Trying to keep it all oem Yamaha and a 15.5" wide tunnel without too much machining work.
 
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You're not wrong but I think the discussion is about gyroscopic effect and how it might be mitigated by the apex engine spinning opposite the drive line.

I fully support apex engines regardless of any benefit in handling. They just sound awesome.

yamadoo said:
The Rotating mass weight issues as I understand it is the Work needed to get the "rotation going". It takes power to rotate or move so the more weight/mass you have the more work you must do to get it rotating/ moving.

Now the opposite rotation of movement issue would be likely to affect vibration, rotational forces /moments and balance not the work or power needed to get the motor moving. Not sure these are 30 some year old thoughts or files so you younger guys can correct my errors. LOL

Simple example. 5 pounds on the chassis takes much less extra horsepower to get the sled moving a certain speed than 5 pounds on jackshaft/clutch which is rotating mass.
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I personally like the tall spindle. Apex motor?? Isn't that going in the opposite direction of weight. Why not a Phazer motor with a properly set up turbo or supercharger?
 
Correct, the Apex does weigh more, it's also wider which are two things I'd have to get over. I go back and forth.

Keeping the Nytro motor and centering it more would make for super narrow body work and help with the compactness of the overall sled.

We are building the Apex first, so it will probably depend on how that sled turns out.
 
The extra hp on same octane, extra 2K of revs are so smooth, the exhaust note alone makes it a no brainer to accept the 7lbs...of course I am biased :)

I'm still skeptical of the gyroscope thing. Although the 4 banger appears to make every thing it goes into better (nypex, vipex, rzr's, etc) I have yet to see anyone disappointed.
 
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