Another primary clutch failure

[KnappAttack]

There is now too much BS on TY. Most of us have no clutch problems and every problem is exaggerated to the point of hyperbole. Im kinda f-in sick of it.

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe the bone stockers are fine, but I ride with a slew of Winders and 9000's, All the winders have issues keeping roller bushings and arm bushings fresh and rolling as well as keeping belts intact when tuned up high. Only the 240 and down machines are what I would call reliable or semi reliable. The harder you ride them and the more you push them, the more failures I see that is a fact.

Some people even having issues with stockers that ride them hard, and lets face it, there are not many actual stockers out there. I see way more early failures with clutch's, clutch parts and belts than I do success stories with the 998. It's just a matter of time before failure with most Yamaha clutched 998's. No doubt the 998 is hard on clutches and belts, IMO one of worst on the market. I have an old RX-1 clutch and a PB-80 I will try along with a Viper secondary for next season, if I don't see greater success with those, I will be biting the bullet and purchasing a TAPP.

Three cylinder four-strokes are all proven to be very hard on clutches.

 

[Tcat100]

I never understand the posts where "most people are not having problems". Then don't you worry about it!!! The forum's reason for is existing is to help out people who do have problems!

 

[iceback]

what problem ?

 

[ClutchMaster]

I can see where serious drag racers would see a disadvantage with a TAPP on controlling engagement without effecting shift. With a TAPP, the spring seems to have less effect on engagement since the ramps/rollers have so much low end leverage compared to the "weak" leverage of a laid over flyweight. Indeed when I tried there much stiffer spring get peak rpms up, it didn't have all that much effect on engagement. The new TAPP ramps are flippable to address this, but I haven't tried that since it would make the clutch more aggressive (lower rpm) throughout the shift range, and with the plus 2 rollers it's already too aggressive. Again for anyone considering make sure you ask them for the stock or plus one rollers. Seems the plus 2s are for higher HP than the 270-280 most trail guys run. All this said, the TAPP is awesome for ordinary hard fast trail riding.

I have no doubt the Tapp Clutch will push harder at the beginning of the shift (which is where you need it most) than a four arm flyweight clutch. TRA springs as high as 300lbs starting rate have been used in stock machines. I have also seen TRA primary’s with over 12k miles and never rebuilt, they were not even really worn out. It’s a solid design 4 sure.

As far as the issues being BS that’s crazy talk.
Those who have no issues are those who ride slowly never getting into the higher rpm ranges for extended periods, that’s where the wear on the rollers happens.

 

[stevewithOCD]

There is now too much BS on TY. Most of us have no clutch problems and every problem is exaggerated to the point of hyperbole. Im kinda f-in sick of it.

I understand your point that not EVERYBODY has these issues.
BUT because of this site, many have avoided the problems BEFORE they happened.
I have been fortunate because i've changed my rollers many times.
My STOCK bud , that drives quite tame, had a clutch issue that i knew how to fix before it exploded. The sled had NO power because it wouldn't shift. He limped it home & we changed his very worn rollers. Only one was really bad actually. Other 2 were OK.
We now carry new rollers with us.
After aligning my clutches & some spring & weight changes i feel confident with my mild tune that i'll be ok as long as i change my rollers regularly.

And use LOCTITE!!!!!

 

[Motorhead]

I understand your point that not EVERYBODY has these issues.
BUT because of this site, many have avoided the problems BEFORE they happened.
I have been fortunate because i've changed my rollers many times.
My STOCK bud , that drives quite tame, had a clutch issue that i knew how to fix before it exploded. The sled had NO power because it wouldn't shift. He limped it home & we changed his very worn rollers. Only one was really bad actually. Other 2 were OK.
We now carry new rollers with us.
After aligning my clutches & some spring & weight changes i feel confident with my mild tune that i'll be ok as long as i change my rollers regularly.

And use LOCTITE!!!!!

I have been one of the lucky ones pertaining to primary clutch rollers.
My mild and semi mild tunes, first the Ecotrail and now Max Spool 16 have not caused any premature roller damage with now in the 5K something odometer range, but thanks to the knowledge gained on this site, my daily maintenance checks and my seasonal maintenance ( And dealer for warranty) have helped me keep this rocket flying! The Winders are High Maintenance sleds for sure, and many posts concerning their downfalls do wear on those of us who own them!

But what else is out there for me with my addiction to power, ride and handling on the snow? Nothing...So!

 

[WinterWolf]

I think that he very knowledgeable, BUT is mostly a drag racer. Drag set ups and trail set ups can be very different.

Very good point...but he assures me that he can and does set them up for Trail riding. So I already addressed that question/point with him. But he’s very Good!! He knows what I’m looking for.

 

[Big_Phil]

Please do.

STM does NOT recommend their clutch for this motor
No warranty on Nitro 1000 or Ski-Doo Triple motors as we do not recommend running these clutches on them.--right from their site.
Winter wolf, I assume you are talking about a Cat shop in Mass on the performance claims??

Ya, we only run the STMS for race use. They don't hold up for trail riding on the 998 or 1049.

As far as the performance claims, if a stock clutch is setup properly and not slipping, there wont be a gain to a properly setup TAPP or STM clutch. This is for stock turbo power levels, up to say 300 hp. After that you run into issues with a 3 arm clutch not being able to hold enough weight in the arms and also not being able to get engagement high enough.

Reliability is another another thing that is hard to prove. I currently have 11000 kms on my stock clutches. 6000kms on a set or primary rollers off a viper clutch. All at 270+ hp. My sled seems to run well for a trail sled compared to what I've raced this season.

I know its not a Yamaha clutch, but one of the fastest stock turbo sleds around here for ice drags still runs the stock Cat Team primary with a tuner secondary on his T-cat. The only races he lost this winter were when he moved up a class and lost to my brothers and 1 modstock 1100 that runs strong.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Ya, we only run the STMS for race use. They don't hold up for trail riding on the 998 or 1049.

As far as the performance claims, if a stock clutch is setup properly and not slipping, there wont be a gain to a properly setup TAPP or STM clutch. This is for stock turbo power levels, up to say 300 hp. After that you run into issues with a 3 arm clutch not being able to hold enough weight in the arms and also not being able to get engagement high enough.

Reliability is another another thing that is hard to prove. I currently have 11000 kms on my stock clutches. 6000kms on a set or primary rollers off a viper clutch. All at 270+ hp. My sled seems to run well for a trail sled compared to what I've raced this season.

I know its not a Yamaha clutch, but one of the fastest stock turbo sleds around here for ice drags still runs the stock Cat Team primary with a tuner secondary on his T-cat. The only races he lost this winter were when he moved up a class and lost to my brothers and 1 modstock 1100 that runs strong.

It’s the 3 arm STM’s that aren’t holding up. I have a 4 arm that has 5000 miles and I just did the rollers and bushings at the end of this season, they weren’t bad but it was time.

X2 on gains, no gain is noticed going to a shinny billet clutch. Setup is where it’s at.

 

[Big_Phil]

It’s the 3 arm STM’s that aren’t holding up. I have a 4 arm that has 5000 miles and I just did the rollers and bushings at the end of this season, they weren’t bad but it was time.

X2 on gains, no gain is noticed going to a shinny billet clutch. Setup is where it’s at.

Good to hear about the 4 arm! We were told not to run the 4 arm for trail riding on the Viper, but good to know. Would love to take it for a little tour at 35 psi, LOL. Makes the 290 sidewinder feel like 440 fanner.

 

[ClutchMaster]

What turbo you running Big Phil?
How many ponies?

 

[Big_Phil]

What turbo you running Big Phil?
How many ponies?

The Viper is a bit older turbo. GT2871. It made 419hp at 32 psi on hurricanes dyno. The head has been O-ringed and valve springs were upgraded since the Dyno, and we were running 35-36 psi or so at the end of this season. So more than 419 horse I assume, lol. We are contemplating on leaving it or going a bigger turbo this summer. They thing ran so good last year we dont want to mess with it, but I know people will be upping their game next season after getting beat by this sled all year.

The Nytro has a GTX2867 gen2 and if we can keep the front end down it will be faster than the viper. Its only been on a track dyno so we really have no idea what HP it makes. At 25psi it leaves my sidewinder in the dust. It will prob end up at hurricanes to get the head O-ringed, valve springs and a dyno tune at some point. Should be fun at 35+ psi.

I want to build a stock turbo class sled this summer out of a Nytro. Its hard to compete in the lake racer or king of the lake classes without spending large amounts of $$$. There will be several sleds around here with 500+ hp next year I'm thinking. Its getting crazy out there.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Nice!
Keep kicking some

 

[STAIN]

Ya, we only run the STMS for race use. They don't hold up for trail riding on the 998 or 1049.

The primary reason I bought the TAPP was for reliability. I don't want to be the guy with a broken sled on a 1100 mile saddlebag trip.
I don't lake race , only trail ride.
The price seems like a lot but when you figure in weights and springs it starts to even out. I know the argument is that some already have the tuning parts but some don't ( I do )
For trail riding, I feel the TAPP grabs harder on the bottom than any other 3 arm set up I have tried, in any sled, save for the heelclicker/draggin fly weights. Those weights don't last in the 3 cylinder and I had to stop using them.
The MAXX weights from Tikka performance look VERY interesting for the 3 arm clutch. They seem like a better engineered version of the Heelclicker.