Barn of Parts Frozen Roll Over Valve Solution

[stohlem]

I have a 2017 Sidewinder. After a couple seal leaks, I went with what was suggested by a member a few years ago. The ROV does come apart, so it was suggested to drill a hole through the valve face that's inside. I think I drilled 2 3/32 holes. The reason is if valve seal is iced shut, at least a bit of relief is present until things thaw and the valve functions. I have seen no excessive oil in air box or cooler. I've had it on it's side a couple of times. Just passing it along.

 

[Vmaxkid]

Wouldn’t something as simple as this just work? A PCV Valve that has the same thread and diameter as the oil cap on the oil tank. Screw it on in place of the cap. Add some plastic tubing and loop it up and then down towards the belly pan. If the ROV freezes the oil tank builds pressure and the valve in the PCV body opens allowing pressure to escape. Once the ROV thaws the valve closes when the pressure subsides.

 

[74Nitro]

Interesting thread. I'd agree with Travis post from long ago which shows pressure building to 55psi. In all my years, I have only seen a roll over valve freeze one time and it was on a 2007 Venture 975. Blew the gasket right out between the cylinder head and valve cover. There had to be an awful lot of pressure to do that

 

[hibshman25]

Wouldn’t something as simple as this just work? A PCV Valve that has the same thread and diameter as the oil cap on the oil tank. Screw it on in place of the cap. Add some plastic tubing and loop it up and then down towards the belly pan. If the ROV freezes the oil tank builds pressure and the valve in the PCV body opens allowing pressure to escape. Once the ROV thaws the valve closes when the pressure subsides.
View attachment 163120

Your logic makes sense, but then there is a second valve that could freeze over so really we are still at risk of pressure build up from a frozen valve.

 

[Phatboyc]

I looked at what Doo did for the 900T. They don't have a ROV and have a PCV on top of the valve cover, like cars, I think. One thing is for sure I couldn't find any post about any freezing issue making a mess with oil tank...

 

[no1b4me]

Man-O-man, you're all splitting hairs on the thread. Not taking anything away from Travis's ingenuity..... But dam just install the KISS principle fix and be done with it...... 99.9% you're riding right side up and on the trails..... You're spending too much time on this teeny weeny issue. A couple feet of heater hose with a gravity loop..... Done all issues solved..... Wear your tether regardless and concerns addressed.
Cheers

 

[NYTurbo]

Man-O-man, you're all splitting hairs on the thread. Not taking anything away from Travis's ingenuity..... But dam just install the KISS principle fix and be done with it...... 99.9% you're riding right side up and on the trails..... You're spending too much time on this teeny weeny issue. A couple feet of heater hose with a gravity loop..... Done all issues solved..... Wear your tether regardless and concerns addressed.
Cheers

I agree. Also the roll over valve doesn't freeze the moisture builds up in the hose as the ROV keeps the moisture in and the hose freezes. But do not use heater hose oil will eat most types up over time

 

[no1b4me]

I agree. Also the roll over valve doesn't freeze the moisture builds up in the hose as the ROV keeps the moisture in and the hose freezes. But do not use heater hose oil will eat most types up over time

The Gates heater hose 4230S is oil resistant.... Most domestic heater hoses are oil resistant....good point to ensure resistance to oil break down.
Cheers

 

[hibshman25]

I looked at what Doo did for the 900T. They don't have a ROV and have a PCV on top of the valve cover, like cars, I think. One thing is for sure I couldn't find any post about any freezing issue making a mess with oil tank...

If i recall I thought the skidoo motors are wet sump so there is no oil tank.

 

[cannondale27]

If i recall I thought the skidoo motors are wet sump so there is no oil tank.

Tank is right on the motor.

 

[Joseph Levandoski]

Tank is right on the motor.

Cannondale27 is correct - all current versions of the 900 ACE (R, 130, non-turbocharged) and 600 ACE motors are dry sump.

Travis -

Is it possible that the ROV bypass kit is permanently bypassing the ROV (because why would it now open if the "air" within the oil sump now has a path of least resistance to the valve cover)? You showed through testing that the oil sump will generate pressure during normal use (and this is what blows the seal when the ROV is frozen closed), so I'm curious if you've inadvertently created a system that's pushing an oil vapor out of the sump to the valve cover, which in turn is already vented from the factory through the breather hose to the backside of the air filter. Which would mean that the ROV bypass is pushing an oily vapor to the intake, which is being burnt by the motor and causing the smoky fume reported by others. Thoughts (from Travis or others)?

 

[hibshman25]

So it appears the smoke from the Sidewinder I had installed a kit on recently was just a fluke. Have been running the sled almost daily since last week and there has not been any smoke. Customer that installed and had smoking removed the kit and is sending it back so I was not able to really do any diagnosing with that sled.

One of my good riding buddies upgraded to a sidewinder this year and he installed the kit on his sled last week. I advised him to run the sled everyday to see if he had any issues and to date he has no smoking issues.

I really dug into the logic of my kit again to see if I overlooked something. I'm essentially doing the same thing that the 05-07 973 motors did. These motors essentially had drop out canister inside the airbox and the accumulated oil drained back into the motor via fitting on the stator cover. They did not have the port on the valve cover. With my kit, the top of the motor is the drop out zone for oil and then the vapor vents out of the oem valve cover vent.

I encourage feedback from anyone that has installed the kit. I'm still putting a hold on shipping anymore kits until I know for sure the kits sold to date are not causing any issue.

 

[hibshman25]

Cannondale27 is correct - all current versions of the 900 ACE (R, 130, non-turbocharged) and 600 ACE motors are dry sump.

Travis -

Is it possible that the ROV bypass kit is permanently bypassing the ROV (because why would it now open if the "air" within the oil sump now has a path of least resistance to the valve cover)? You showed through testing that the oil sump will generate pressure during normal use (and this is what blows the seal when the ROV is frozen closed), so I'm curious if you've inadvertently created a system that's pushing an oil vapor out of the sump to the valve cover, which in turn is already vented from the factory through the breather hose to the backside of the air filter. Which would mean that the ROV bypass is pushing an oily vapor to the intake, which is being burnt by the motor and causing the smoky fume reported by others. Thoughts (from Travis or others)?

The bypass will prevent the ROV from opening as long as pressure in system does not exceed a 1-2 psi. If bypass can't relieve enough pressure than the ROV opens and relieves the additional pressure. Both rollover valve and my bypass force discharge into the intake system. Valve cover vents right into the air filter, while the ROV vents into the intake tube that connects air filter to the turbo intake. Any vapor discharged by either hose essentially in theory gets consumed and burnt.

 

[Phatboyc]

Humm to install or not to install...

How many ran the kit last year vs call backs?

 

[sidewinder 2018]

Thanks for the update Travis, I installed mine over the summer and have not had any smoking issues during several starts .That hose was a challenge to install because of my model sled ,with additional brackets in the rear that had to be removed to shift the gas tank rearward. I also used the BOM packing that was on the valve cover cap, on your modified fitting.All good