Clutch observation and issue. Calling clutch experts here.

[Sledroll]

So here's the video of my sidewinder clutches in operation. Why doesn't the belt come back to the top of the secondary? My brothers sidewinder does the same thing, belt doesn't come right to the top when you let off the throttle. My dealer changed the bushings In the secondary, checked the offset, alignment and everything. The belt now comes up to the top of the secondary slightly better than this video, but still not like it should be IMO

Here is my nytro, the video is a little dark, but look how the secondary snaps shut immediately when letting off the gas or grabbing a handful of brakes.

Same primary weights In each sled and they are both loaded almost the same. (Stm 60y)

Is this a design flaw with the sidewinder secondary or what's the issue?

I blew 3 belts, and the first one went thru my sidepanel. My clutches don't heat up when driving hard or drag racing. Only snaps after locking up the track and then giving lots of throttle. My dealer has been great and has looked at the sled 3 times already.

Yamaha says there is nothing wrong with the sled, and has advised me to drive my sled accordingly. They told me not to grab the brakes and lock up the track, and that I should accelerate gently.

SERIOUSLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Drive accordingly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With the most powerful sled built , you are supposed to watch as all other lesser sleds , leave you in their snow dust on the trails , because you are driving accordingly , and the sled was designed not to drive aggressively , involving use of the brake and throttle in rapid succession !!!!!!!
ARE YOU FRICKEN KIDDING !!!!!!

 

[ClutchMaster]

Yep yep when you switch to the 42 helix try about a 40~50* wrap on that red/black cat spring right? That should really haul the mail! Won’t ballon the belt anymore either.

Ok your probably talking about the Dalton black/orange which is identical to the cat red/white.

 

[Big_Phil]

That does not seem right at all. Have you taken your secondary apart and run it through its cycle without the spring?

It has a squeaky spot right where it seems to get stuck on the backshift. Can't see anywhere where it's rubbing tho. I'm gonna call my dealer in the mornjng and see what they say. It's only squeaky right when it's just opening, and the rest of the travel is smooth

 

[ClutchMaster]

SERIOUSLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Drive accordingly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With the most powerful sled built , you are supposed to watch as all other lesser sleds , leave you in their snow dust on the trails , because you are driving accordingly , and the sled was designed not to drive aggressively , involving use of the brake and throttle in rapid succession !!!!!!!
ARE YOU FRICKEN KIDDING !!!!!!

Beer in hand and Popcorn is in the microwave!

 

[cannondale27]

I heard that too! Big Phil thanks for the Vids. Thats really messed up. Reminds me of my RR purchase experience. Have a little course in yard for kids. Brought sled home and took it around the track. Its tight and couple little jumps so you are locking up track and then hard on gas all the time. Dang thing sounded like it was going to rip the innards out of chaincase by second turn. So next time I locked up track I stopped and looked and sure enough the rollers were off helix and belt was sucked down in secondary. Got depressed cause of all the Cat belt issues and knew I would also have one. Went to dealer and was informed that that condition is normal and if you stop hard you should creep ahead a little before nailing gas again!WTF! No wonder they get their butt kicked leaving every stop. Never knew I had to wait for them to get belt back up. Put Torsional conversion on and havent had a problem since. #1 Rule taught at any decent Auto,Bike or Truck Tech School. Dont ever tell the customer how operate thier vehicle.If their is a issue fix it or at least do something.

 

[ClutchMaster]

The Tangs on the Dalton spring compared to the location of the stock spring are completely different and the 3-3 setting that it uses on the stock spring is not even close when trying the same 3-3 setting on the Dalton spring. The tangs on the Dalton spring are almost in line with each other and have no where near the torsional load it should. Needs to be in 6-1 or 6-2 to work properly. I noticed in the video it was in the 3 position on the helix so I'm guessing its 3-3 which is incorrect. I also noticed you were hitting the brakes when revving it on the stand. You need to let it come down on its own. Another thing to test is after it comes to a rest is slowly spool up the secondary but don't allow it to shift and see if the belt walks its way to the top. The 8JP belt will not go all the way to the top but it comes alot closer than I am seeing in the video. Also check shimming and see if the deflection is wrong keeping the belt too low. Looks to be alot of slack in the primary to take up and that is part of the reason belts are blowing. Too much shock drawing in all that slack. I would also take that clutch apart and clean the faces and check to make sure you don't have any debris or bushing binding going on. Check rollers for flat spots and if you follow this, there should be no reason why the clutch should not shift properly.

Absolutely correct that spring has arctic cat clocked tangs. Snowbeast has it the right way. 3-3 is only about 20 degrees of twist which is fine for 6-1 is 30 degrees which ain't a whole lot more, sounds about right. This spring has way more compression than the stocker.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Actually exactly double the side pressure of the stocker.

 

[Doowithblue]

Clutchaster I have both and the dalton does not look same as cat red/wh.

 

[PowderFalcon]

Clutchaster I have both and the dalton does not look same as cat red/wh.

I was curious by that too Rob. They sure dont look the same!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

When playing with other sec springs them YAM known springs, I would sure be using a scale when setting up your twist.

FYI: Dalton B/O at 6/1 is only 14psi backpressure(avg) when installed, Anything less then 70 degrees IMO is WAY WAY too little backpressure.

When you swap springs as much as I do, you get to know the "feel" when installing them. But I still would be doing a quick 2 second fish scale test to get you in the right spot for initial pressure.

Dan

 

[ShootToThrill]

When playing with other sec springs them YAM known springs, I would sure be using a scale when setting up your twist.

FYI: Dalton B/O at 6/1 is only 14psi backpressure(avg) when installed, Anything less then 70 degrees IMO is WAY WAY too little backpressure.

When you swap springs as much as I do, you get to know the "feel" when installing them. But I still would be doing a quick 2 second fish scale test to get you in the right spot for initial pressure.

Dan

Dan what be a good number to hit on a fish scale. Is there a window for a good starting point? I’ll have the TP orange and a dalton o/b along with the stocker this weekend I could maybe try out some ideas. I have a 39/35 dalton and stock helix. Running pt cai tune in a 129 model. Stm primary weights with pink spring from Ulmer. Hoping to try out a couple setups to help out belt temps.

 

[STAIN]

It has a squeaky spot right where it seems to get stuck on the backshift. Can't see anywhere where it's rubbing tho. I'm gonna call my dealer in the mornjng and see what they say. It's only squeaky right when it's just opening, and the rest of the travel is smooth

I think you found your issue......

 

[ClutchMaster]

Clutchaster I have both and the dalton does not look same as cat red/wh.

Well I checked the Dalton website for spring specs guess I missed the fact that the Dalton has almost one full coil extra. The side pressure is very very close. I would guess the twist rate would be different tho.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Dan what be a good number to hit on a fish scale. Is there a window for a good starting point? I’ll have the TP orange and a dalton o/b along with the stocker this weekend I could maybe try out some ideas. I have a 39/35 dalton and stock helix. Running pt cai tune in a 129 model. Stm primary weights with pink spring from Ulmer. Hoping to try out a couple setups to help out belt temps.

I prefer to be around 16psi avg....good starting point.

 

[ShootToThrill]

I prefer to be around 16psi avg....good starting point.

Thanks!