Clutch observation and issue. Calling clutch experts here.

[Snowaddict]

Well that sounds like the right direction to me.

I would assume your running an 8jp belt correct? If the clutches aren’t hot and you like the upshift/backshift I would say your good to go. If you wanted a little more grunt in the low/midrange yea take it down to 1-3 or 0-3. You might have to pull a little tip weight to get the rpms back up. I would bet those clutches will still run cool at those settings.

Yes, 8JP belt. I was a little low on RPMs last year with TP clutch kit and 35/39 Helix, but stock secondary spring (wrapped 6-1.) Got the TP secondary spring now though, and wanted to try it before making other adjustments. Hopefully, this weekend I'll give it a try. Will be back on with results or more questions then. Thanks

 

[jonlafon1]

Cat yellow is the closest spring to the stock winder spring. It will be slightly heavier side pressure with less twist rate, actually might be a nice test on a 35~38 helix. I would start with a 50* wrap and see how that works.

Thanks for reply. Got the stock secondary spring coming up tomorrow night. All done at this point with the TP orange and Dalton B/O. Just can't pull that spring /secondary open enough with 38 helix.

 

[stevewithOCD]

My belt does the same thing when letting off throttle. I was told it was OK, but i checked 2 Apex's, 1 Rush, 2 Skiroul's and not one of them does this.
My secondary is free as the Lynyrd Skynyrd song, but it takes as long as the song to return. ( Freebird is over 11 minutes long so i'm exaggerating obviously)
My Primary binds fully compressed, but that will have to wait until spring.
Right now running 102 fever so i can't even go look at my girls in the garage to say hello. But this weekend i will be testing spring pressures & posting........i hope!

 

[ClutchMaster]

My belt does the same thing when letting off throttle. I was told it was OK, but i checked 2 Apex's, 1 Rush, 2 Skiroul's and not one of them does this.
My secondary is free as the Lynyrd Skynyrd song, but it takes as long as the song to return. ( Freebird is over 11 minutes long so i'm exaggerating obviously)
My Primary binds fully compressed, but that will have to wait until spring.
Right now running 102 fever so i can't even go look at my girls in the garage to say hello. But this weekend i will be testing spring pressures & posting........i hope!

Hope your feeling better soon StevewithSTD.
Minus the post

 

[STAIN]

All this talk of going bigger reverse angle helix puzzles me. I am leaning towards a 37-35 or if I go G-Force 41-37

 

[stevewithOCD]

Somewhere in this book i read about proper clutching keeping constant pressure on belt & "jumping" or loosening on backshift can be fatal....looks like i got homework tomorrow

 

[stevewithOCD]

Hope your feeling better soon StevewithSTD.
Minus the post

STD? That's a good one! Then i laughed & coughed for 5 minutes. You owe me a lung!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

The TP orange and the Dalton black orange will not work with a straight 38 helix.AND THE PRIMARY WEIGHTS I HAVE. With TD eco trail tune(about 250 ish HP. Only change I made from last year and having tons of belt dust in secondary / not so much on primary. The sled will not pull rpm both out of hole and up top. With stock secondary spring and straight 38 it pulls 9160 out of the hole and settles around 8800 give of take 100either way depending conditions. Also more back shift with heavy springs and straight 38 compared to stocker secondary spring. With the Dalton bo. It only pulls 8400 out of hole and 8300 up top. Sorry for jijack thread but thought it interesting about the springs and straight helix with more angle

38 will certainly rev lower and upshift faster then stock 35.

 

[Big_Phil]

My belt does the same thing when letting off throttle. I was told it was OK, but i checked 2 Apex's, 1 Rush, 2 Skiroul's and not one of them does this.
My secondary is free as the Lynyrd Skynyrd song, but it takes as long as the song to return. ( Freebird is over 11 minutes long so i'm exaggerating obviously)
My Primary binds fully compressed, but that will have to wait until spring.
Right now running 102 fever so i can't even go look at my girls in the garage to say hello. But this weekend i will be testing spring pressures & posting........i hope!

Thank you for agreeing with me! lol

I thought I was going crazy here for a minute, because this is not how a secondary is supposed to work. Either the spring/helix choice from the factory is way off, or there is something fundamentally wrong with the design of this clutch.

Im gonna do some testing tomorrow hopefully with a basket full of springs. Have a purple EPI, and some random other ones I will try. Gonna try mounting the gopro so it can see the clutches working, but no promises on that.

 

[Big_Phil]

Thanks for reply. Got the stock secondary spring coming up tomorrow night. All done at this point with the TP orange and Dalton B/O. Just can't pull that spring /secondary open enough with 38 helix.

The dalton black/orange has the same finish rate as the stocker, and is stiffer initial side load. Someone correct me if im wrong, but this should mean it brings the rpms up quicker, and finish rpms should be the same as stock?

 

[ROCKERDAN]

The dalton black/orange has the same finish rate as the stocker, and is stiffer initial side load. Someone correct me if im wrong, but this should mean it brings the rpms up quicker, and finish rpms should be the same as stock?

Agree with you.....

It was created to help with low end bite w/,more initial side pressure.

The key is, you need to wrap it 6/1 to be equal to 3/3 of original spring.

Dan

 

[jonlafon1]

The dalton black/orange has the same finish rate as the stocker, and is stiffer initial side load. Someone correct me if im wrong, but this should mean it brings the rpms up quicker, and finish rpms should be the same as stock?

I can assure you it is not same as stock spring. I will go on limb as say not even close. I know I will get #*$&@ for this. But real world riding and testing does not lie. It's got MORE side pressur then stock

 

[stevewithOCD]

Well let's back up just a tad. I do NOT want to argue with smart people here because i'm not in their league.
BUT..........If that belt goes slack for that half second & you happen to nail 200 HP just right, only common sense says BOOOOOOOMMMMMM!
My Apex does not even hesitate. I am very rough & borderline abusive on belts & i still have a 4500 mile 8DN belt i keep for ''TST". That would be Two Stroke Towing.
Mine is not as bad as BigPhil's, but i just can't see that being right.

If i have to watch my throttle play, i'll sell my 'Winder & powder coat my Apex & spend $60 every other year & smoke my buddy that is interested in buying my 'Winder because he has to "watch" his throttle........

P.S: I'm going to fix mine so that was just me ranting a tad

 

[jonlafon1]

Agree with you.....

It was created to help with low end bite w/,more initial side pressure.

The key is, you need to wrap it 6/1 to be equal to 3/3 of original spring.

Dan

How does wrapping it tighter then stock 3/3 make it same as stock? Grab a stock spring in your hand and squeeze it. Then do same with Dalton BO.

 

[WinterWolf]

The dalton black/orange has the same finish rate as the stocker, and is stiffer initial side load. Someone correct me if im wrong, but this should mean it brings the rpms up quicker, and finish rpms should be the same as stock?

That is correct I believe. I have it in mine with a 33/35 Dalton Helix set at 3-3, and ran very well...top R’s were 8550-8600. Going to go with 6-1 wrap now cuz Dalton and other experienced Tuners on here say 6-1 is the recommended wrap. May get me a bit more top end R’s..along with sled breaking in more as well(417 miles on it now).
JoeLTX with this same set up changed from 3-3 to 6-1 and found more top End he said..and likes it even better, and is very happy he said.