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Cold starting


I'm not sure if it's suppose to take more than one attempt. There have been varying reports on how many start attempts it takes and some do start on first try. I believe the "anti kickback feature" added with this flash won't allow it to start if the ECU voltage drops to low on a start attempt. I have an older Cat F7 with efi and no electric start. If it sits for awhile the first pull on the cord will charge the electronics but it never starts the engine so a cold start always takes at least two pulls and the second pull almost always starts it. I think Arctic Cat incorporated the same logic into the last flash update.
 
grizztracks said:
I'm not sure if it's suppose to take more than one attempt. There have been varying reports on how many start attempts it takes and some do start on first try. I believe the "anti kickback feature" added with this flash won't allow it to start if the ECU voltage drops to low on a start attempt. I have an older Cat F7 with efi and no electric start. If it sits for awhile the first pull on the cord will charge the electronics but it never starts the engine so a cold start always takes at least two pulls and the second pull almost always starts it. I think Arctic Cat incorporated the same logic into the last flash update.
Click to expand...

Makes sense...
I was told by a couple dealers that it’s not supposed to start on the first try but will on the second try. After getting my 16’ flashed twice, the 2nd flash was the one where it only started on the second try. My 18’ is identical. And it hasn’t even been flashed yet...
 
So yesterday I fired up the sled on the first try, no hesitation whatsoever...coolant temp read -7 right away. Felt colder outside that’s forsure.
So, I let the pump cycle like normal but the very millisecond it was done cycling...I turned key instantly and it fired right away. I think maybe if you wait a second or 2 after the pump has cycled it won’t start right away. Just my observation, maybe I got lucky. Maybe it’ll happen again, maybe it won’t....who knows. Lol
 
-10f seems to be the cut off for me. I'll try your method for sure. Doing a backpack trip this weekend. Supposed to get down to -8f in Ely MN Saturday night. Hope it's not playing it too close. No room for the heat gun & extension cord.
 
I will add my cold weather start up conditions. My sled has just over 1000 miles and the stock flash for a 17 ltx dx. I run 87 octane fuel and sled is completely stock. My coolant temp registered -14f buds ski doo registered -17f and truck registered -16f. First start attempt after letting the fuel pump cycle once was a no go, it didn't fire at all. The second attempt after letting the fuel pump cycle it did start on two cylinders only for about 5 seconds than stalled. The third attempt after letting the fuel pump cycle it started on 2 cylinders than after 10 seconds or so it hit on all three. I will add this observation for warm starts the rest of the day. If I let the fuel pump cycle sometimes it would start first time, always on the second attempt. If I just hopped on the sled and turned the key with no fuel pump cycle it would start first time every time. That includes stops of up to an hour for lunch. I am not real sure why not letting the fuel pump cycle on warm starts made for consistent 1st starts but it was very noticeable. If the sled cold starts like this say down to -30f it would be ok, not happy about it but could put up with it. Not bashing but all 3 ski doos 16 600 etec, 17 600 etec, and a 16 900 ace all started easily first attempt with no stalls. All 4 were started at the same time with the temps listed above. On a positive note I was a very warm camper at trail speeds behind my 4x8 sheet of plastic!! ;0)
 
Snowfreak47 said:
I will add my cold weather start up conditions. My sled has just over 1000 miles and the stock flash for a 17 ltx dx. I run 87 octane fuel and sled is completely stock. My coolant temp registered -14f buds ski doo registered -17f and truck registered -16f. First start attempt after letting the fuel pump cycle once was a no go, it didn't fire at all. The second attempt after letting the fuel pump cycle it did start on two cylinders only for about 5 seconds than stalled. The third attempt after letting the fuel pump cycle it started on 2 cylinders than after 10 seconds or so it hit on all three. I will add this observation for warm starts the rest of the day. If I let the fuel pump cycle sometimes it would start first time, always on the second attempt. If I just hopped on the sled and turned the key with no fuel pump cycle it would start first time every time. That includes stops of up to an hour for lunch. I am not real sure why not letting the fuel pump cycle on warm starts made for consistent 1st starts but it was very noticeable. If the sled cold starts like this say down to -30f it would be ok, not happy about it but could put up with it. Not bashing but all 3 ski doos 16 600 etec, 17 600 etec, and a 16 900 ace all started easily first attempt with no stalls. All 4 were started at the same time with the temps listed above. On a positive note I was a very warm camper at trail speeds behind my 4x8 sheet of plastic!! ;0)
Click to expand...

Lol I take it you have the tall windshield! I do as well, and it’s very nice on cold days! Sometimes it’s too warm...
 
Well sled has been outside for 2 days and went out this morning at -29c and fired up on second crank.
 
Why do some start, and others not, at -20f?

I can eliminate frozen relays. All have been upgraded to the -40f version. At -20f, warming up the relays, thinking even the upgraded ones were frozen, does not help. Warming up engine, until coolant temperature is warmer that -8f does.

Possible coolant sensor, or air intake sensor, Not providing accurate information? Yet still with in range to not throw a code? Puzzling.

Sunday morning coolant read -6f. First attempt slight fire. Second attempt start but dies. Third started, but a slightly lower idle compared to warm. Normal.

At -10f and colder, I know I'll more than likely need the heat gun.
 
Back to 2nd attempt...oh well. I guess I just got lucky lol.
 
Since the reflash was done in the off season, I would say ours has been starting with one attempt on the first start of the day about 50% of the time this season. I don't wait for the pump to cycle though I usually did with the old flash. I'd say it's more likely to need 2 attempts in the colder weather. I expected it to need 2 attempts most of the time but it hasn't been that way. Might be due to the more mild temps we have been out in. Most have been above 0 F.
The need for a second attemp at times doesn't really bother me much though I still think they could have improved the flash. Idle isn't as smooth as it was with the original 14' flash. Havent had any backfires during start that some have claimed to have. The thing that I am very happy about is the hot starts. No problems at all. Fires right up and no kickbacks.
I've posted this before but I originally had no interest in the new flashes. I was content with the original flash except for some hot start issues sometimes and I would just crack the throttle if it didn't go the first time and it would fire up ok. Never had kickback issues. After a few seasons I finally got the dreaded kickback on a hot start. Shortly after I had another and no start and there went the teeth into broken pieces. After seeing how quick this happened taking out the starter despite years of no kickback problems, I changed my mind quickly and I'm happy to have the reflash if it keeps starting and running like it has this season.
 
Verified with the dealer today that mine has the latest flash so I'll chime in. Mine goes first try at anything above -5*f coolant temp, 2nd attempt in the -5 to -15*f, and the 2 times it was below -20*f coolant temp took 3 and 5 attempts. The -23 wasn't pretty, had a pretty noticeable pop come out of the exhaust which sounded/smelled like it was loading up with fuel. It did start though, haven't had any violent kickbacks. I really think its a voltage issue, and here is why. My Stator got taken out by a piece of metal left behind from a previous repair which I didn't know at the time. It had the same horrible "cold start" issue with coolant temps in the mid 20's until I found the battery wasn't charging and was under 25% charge, should have check the voltage right away when it didn't start quickly, like normal, at warmer temps. Next time it's left out in the cold I'm going to hook jumpers up to my truck and see how quickly it fires with 14v+ available. If it starts quickly I'm just going to invest in a small lithium boost pack and hook it up before even trying to start it on frigid mornings.
 
I'm working on a voltage booster that I was hoping to start testing in the next few weeks but it now looks like it might take a little longer due to some health issues. I just got out of the Hospital after having some heart issues and needing an emergency surgery to implant a pacemaker. My overall health is very good for a 54 year old but I had out of all things an electrical issue with my heart.....go figure. I'll still be working on this start problem in a couple weeks but I won't be making any trips on a sled for at least six weeks.
 
Hope everything works out for you. I always enjoy your projects. Take care.
 
sry to hear that grizztracks.
 
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