On the hunt for z daffy ducks.

[Doc Harley]

It's safe to say things will settle down over at camp Doo. And the Mach Z will take it's rightful place by the 998t's side. Kinda like a red haired step child.
Someone claims to have broken into the computer on one. (Unverified)
They will be chasing fixes for belts being too long and such. Lol.
All in all, part of the fun is getting things sorted out.
If it were me, I'd be looking for a good resource for crank and rods, Pistons, injectors, bigger Turbo, larger intercooler, cnc'd head, etc. Lol.

 

[XP123]

I haven’t had a chance to race my old Winder but I did spend over 5 hours last weekend getting the old girl ready for the Winter. I changed all the fluids and checked for coolant leaks because it’s been losing coolant but couldn’t find anything. I cleaned out the chain case and cleaned the clutches. It only has around 4500 miles on it but it looks like a twenty year old sled. Lots of rust and belt dust everywhere. I think the primary clutch needs a total rebuild and I’m afraid it’s going to need bearings replaced. I told the new owner to get rid of it because I’m afraid it’s going to need a lot of maintenance from now on.
You guys are right about how fast these Cats are but unless you are a master mechanic you shouldn’t own one. I haven’t used so many tools since the last time I worked on that sled. It’s a full time job keeping these Cats up but you are rewarded with a darn fast sled and with a tune you will be unbeatable.
I don’t care about beating anyone anymore so having a slow duck sled is fine by me as long as I can ride it without worry and only have to add fuel and nothing more for thousands of miles. I feel trail riding and corner to corner performance is much more important than sitting on a lake a racing other chest pounders and my slow Doo delivers in spades.
I will say this though, I haven’t lost my touch when it comes to taking my old Winder apart and doing the maintenance on it. I guess it’s like riding a bike and the fact I had lots of practice.

 

[jonlafon1]

I haven’t had a chance to race my old Winder but I did spend over 5 hours last weekend getting the old girl ready for the Winter. I changed all the fluids and checked for coolant leaks because it’s been losing coolant but couldn’t find anything. I cleaned out the chain case and cleaned the clutches. It only has around 4500 miles on it but it looks like a twenty year old sled. Lots of rust and belt dust everywhere. I think the primary clutch needs a total rebuild and I’m afraid it’s going to need bearings replaced. I told the new owner to get rid of it because I’m afraid it’s going to need a lot of maintenance from now on.
You guys are right about how fast these Cats are but unless you are a master mechanic you shouldn’t own one. I haven’t used so many tools since the last time I worked on that sled. It’s a full time job keeping these Cats up but you are rewarded with a darn fast sled and with a tune you will be unbeatable.
I don’t care about beating anyone anymore so having a slow duck sled is fine by me as long as I can ride it without worry and only have to add fuel and nothing more for thousands of miles. I feel trail riding and corner to corner performance is much more important than sitting on a lake a racing other chest pounders and my slow Doo delivers in spades.
I will say this though, I haven’t lost my touch when it comes to taking my old Winder apart and doing the maintenance on it. I guess it’s like riding a bike and the fact I had lots of practice.

Rust and belt dust, LOTS?? Sounds like a shitty clutch set up and a sled that sits in a trailer outside all year long. Just a guess though. Let us know how the race comes out!

 

[XP123]

Rust and belt dust, LOTS?? Sounds like a shitty clutch set up and a sled that sits in a trailer outside all year long. Just a guess though. Let us know how the race comes out!

I know it’s garage kept but honestly nobody takes care of sleds like I do. I’m sure if I still owned it I would have it looking much better than it did.
I used to really enjoy working on sleds but now I hate it. I much prefer to just add gas and ride. The only reason I’m still maintaining it is because I made a huge mistake of selling it to a relative and he thinks the sale included free maintenance for life.
I know I may get bashed for my opinion but the Cats require a lot more preventative maintenance than a SkiDoo. There is no way you can own one of these procross sleds and ride them and just add fuel without performing many pre maintenance steps and many BOP fixes and parts. Like I said earlier, if you are willing to put forth the effort and money you will be rewarded with an awesome riding, handling and performing sled but many of us are no longer willing to do it so we buy Daffy Duck slow sleds.

 

[KnappAttack]

I know it’s garage kept but honestly nobody takes care of sleds like I do. I’m sure if I still owned it I would have it looking much better than it did.
I used to really enjoy working on sleds but now I hate it. I much prefer to just add gas and ride. The only reason I’m still maintaining it is because I made a huge mistake of selling it to a relative and he thinks the sale included free maintenance for life.
I know I may get bashed for my opinion but the Cats require a lot more preventative maintenance than a SkiDoo. There is no way you can own one of these procross sleds and ride them and just add fuel without performing many pre maintenance steps and many BOP fixes and parts. Like I said earlier, if you are willing to put forth the effort and money you will be rewarded with an awesome riding, handling and performing sled but many of us are no longer willing to do it so we buy Daffy Duck slow sleds.

I had 1200's as you know for years, and I don't do any more or less maintenance to a Doo or a Winder, I dont feel one is better or worse than the other. I actually feel the winder is holding up much better than the Doo's do. LOL! The Doo has plastic bushings in the suspension that totally take a crap the instant you start pushing the miles on, and the seat sacks out like an old footstool. The Cat needs some rivet replaced however so thats an issue on them I guess, and the bushing in the top gear needs addressed. To say the Winder needs more maintenance is BS and fake news Joe.

I have had Doo's thru here a year old that also look 12 years old corroded and rusted. Same with the Cats. A lot of them get driven down the road on open trailers or just plain get driven down the salty ditch or even the road with road salt present. That said, the Doo's powder coating is better than Cats paint.

 

[XP123]

I had 1200's as you know for years, and I don't do any more or less maintenance to a Doo or a Winder, I dont feel one is better or worse than the other. I actually feel the winder is holding up much better than the Doo's do. LOL! The Doo has plastic bushings in the suspension that totally take a crap the instant you start pushing the miles on, and the seat sacks out like an old footstool. The Cat needs some rivet replaced however so thats an issue on them I guess, and the bushing in the top gear needs addressed. To say the Winder needs more maintenance is BS and fake news Joe.

I have had Doo's thru here a year old that also look 12 years old corroded and rusted. Same with the Cats. A lot of them get driven down the road on open trailers or just plain get driven down the salty ditch or even the road with road salt present. That said, the Doo's powder coating is better than Cats paint.

That’s your take Mike and you know my take. What you also need to know is from 1991 to 2004 I wouldn’t even look at a Doo or Yamaha. I owned over 20 Cats during that time and I bled green. My first Doo ever was a 2004 Rev and my first Yamaha and 4 stroke was a 2006 Apex. I won’t get into details but there is a reason I own and ride SkiDoo’s Even though I have owned way more Cats. I never wanted to admit it all those Cat years but they were inferior built products compared to Doo and Yamaha. When I bought my Winder I was thinking Yamaha had made a difference on Cats quality and at first I thought they had. Into the second season of ownership I realized that nothing changed and my new Winder was nothing more than a cat that looked like a Yamaha. It’s really a shame because that Yamaha engine is a masterpiece compared to all others.
I’m surprised at your opinion on your Winder when all I read for a couple years was how you were fixing this or that on your Winder and all the re-engineering you had to do Along with all those BOP fixes you were trying. Maybe I am mistaken and I’m thinking of someone else.

 

[KnappAttack]

The only one BOP fix I have Joe is a BOP wedge to hold the driveshaft bearing. You act like that has to be 20 things gone to these Winders to fix them and that couldn't be further from the truth.

Here is the list of items that MUST be done IMO.

1. The wedge to fix the bearing spinning on the driveshaft. Thats a must.
2. Tack weld the tensioner screws on the tensioner. Thats a must
3. Change top gear bushing the Hurricane roller bearing top gear or a DMC bushing. Thats a must, unless you want to replace the bushing seasonally which is really not a tough job either as the chain case oil get changed anyway and you are already in there.

That is it, along with a ROV delete if you thing you feel you want or need to do that. Also the re-seal on the oil tank perhaps if it leaks. Thats it. That is all that HAS to be done. Anything else is because you want to boost it up to 300 HP levels. You act as though the whole things needs a re-design.

Yes, I bitch about it in hopes that Cat/Yamaha fixed this stuff at the factory level, but once these items driveline things are done the sled is bulletproof. I bitch to try and get them to accomplish improvements to their product, same exact thing I did on the Doo site. They have IMO a lot more improvements to make than Cat/Yamaha needs to preform. The handling on the Doo is not up to snuff of the Cat along with the front end. The Doo for now is lacking a complete and decent engine package & HP, a front end, and proper rear suspension calibration that keeps the skis down to have a decent hyper sled. If it sounds like they need lots of help its because its true.

Doo doesn't even have a sled close to 300 HP or the good handling to run it at that 300 HP level.

I've owned/raced and trail rode them them all except for Polaris, and they all have there little quirks with their pros and their cons. Doo is a great machine I know, but they just dont have a machine I want anymore or should say yet. The 1200 was the best most reliable machine they have ever built to date. It was a little underdog with the proper mods, but turbo it for the power, and the chassis was somewhat lacking for ride and handling quality that was needed at that higher power level. None the less, it was a great reliable sled, like I'm sure the 900 turbo is stock, however the 900 is lacking that underdog ability and still handles, rides and steers well, like a Ski-Doo and not the Cat.

If I was going to order a new machine right now from any current line up MFGR it would be the Thundercat with PowerSteering hands down. The Mack or 900R wouldn't even be in contention for me. No one has anything comparable to it to be found.

 

[74Nitro]

I had 1200's as you know for years, and I don't do any more or less maintenance to a Doo or a Winder, I dont feel one is better or worse than the other. I actually feel the winder is holding up much better than the Doo's do. LOL! The Doo has plastic bushings in the suspension that totally take a crap the instant you start pushing the miles on, and the seat sacks out like an old footstool. The Cat needs some rivet replaced however so thats an issue on them I guess, and the bushing in the top gear needs addressed. To say the Winder needs more maintenance is BS and fake news Joe.

I have had Doo's thru here a year old that also look 12 years old corroded and rusted. Same with the Cats. A lot of them get driven down the road on open trailers or just plain get driven down the salty ditch or even the road with road salt present. That said, the Doo's powder coating is better than Cats paint.

Agree, the two things needed to keep them looking better after a few years is better rivets and better quality painted steel parts.

 

[jonlafon1]

Bingo on the paint jobs. And how about not scratching the pi%^ out of the paint before we get the sled?? A-Arms? The fit n finish is slightly nicer on the doo. I will give them that! But seriously the 22 is so flat and fast!! I still am pleased with the improvements from 17 to 22. Starting to get it dialed better now with miles. Way less ski lift and just SO damn flat in corners and everything. What they lack on fit and finish they do make up for on handling!! Honestly I can drive one handed with out power steering. I laugh when I see other guys try to signal on the trail.

 

[Bigblue1]

With all the hype on the mighty z and smack talk from the doo loyal I think its time to give every daffy duck i find on the lake a lesson!!! Srx is hungry!! lol

We call that Confit.

 

[XP123]

The only one BOP fix I have Joe is a BOP wedge to hold the driveshaft bearing. You act like that has to be 20 things gone to these Winders to fix them and that couldn't be further from the truth.

Here is the list of items that MUST be done IMO.

1. The wedge to fix the bearing spinning on the driveshaft. Thats a must.
2. Tack weld the tensioner screws on the tensioner. Thats a must
3. Change top gear bushing the Hurricane roller bearing top gear or a DMC bushing. Thats a must, unless you want to replace the bushing seasonally which is really not a tough job either as the chain case oil get changed anyway and you are already in there.

That is it, along with a ROV delete if you thing you feel you want or need to do that. Also the re-seal on the oil tank perhaps if it leaks. Thats it. That is all that HAS to be done. Anything else is because you want to boost it up to 300 HP levels. You act as though the whole things needs a re-design.

Yes, I bitch about it in hopes that Cat/Yamaha fixed this stuff at the factory level, but once these items driveline things are done the sled is bulletproof. I bitch to try and get them to accomplish improvements to their product, same exact thing I did on the Doo site. They have IMO a lot more improvements to make than Cat/Yamaha needs to preform. The handling on the Doo is not up to snuff of the Cat along with the front end. The Doo for now is lacking a complete and decent engine package & HP, a front end, and proper rear suspension calibration that keeps the skis down to have a decent hyper sled. If it sounds like they need lots of help its because its true.

Doo doesn't even have a sled close to 300 HP or the good handling to run it at that 300 HP level.

I've owned/raced and trail rode them them all except for Polaris, and they all have there little quirks with their pros and their cons. Doo is a great machine I know, but they just dont have a machine I want anymore or should say yet. The 1200 was the best most reliable machine they have ever built to date. It was a little underdog with the proper mods, but turbo it for the power, and the chassis was somewhat lacking for ride and handling quality that was needed at that higher power level. None the less, it was a great reliable sled, like I'm sure the 900 turbo is stock, however the 900 is lacking that underdog ability and still handles, rides and steers well, like a Ski-Doo and not the Cat.

If I was going to order a new machine right now from any current line up MFGR it would be the Thundercat with PowerSteering hands down. The Mack or 900R wouldn't even be in contention for me. No one has anything comparable to it to be found.

Three people I know had trips ruined because of some of the easy fixes you mentioned. Rockerdan had the screw in the adjuster back out and destroy the case. Another guy I know had the hose in the tunnel rip out from ice and he was stuck up in Quebec for a couple days before getting a ride to pick up his truck. Another friend of mine had the oil tank seal blow out and ruin his trip in Northern Ontario. The turning point for me is my oil tank seal blew and that was long after I did the ROV delete. I could go on Mike but I don’t want to. I don’t have the time or patience to deal with all the nonsense because honestly I have no interest is going 120 mph or need 300 HP. I enjoy trail riding on groomed trails and my favorite is saddlebag trips Where at times I’m three days ride from my truck. That is the reason I ride what I do.
Don’t get the idea that I don’t like my Winder because I really enjoyed everything about it. the ride and handling was awesome and the engine was a dream come true. You do remember when I posted what a fantastic sled it was and you told me I was full of crap and the procross chassis was absolute garbage right.

 

[1nc 2000]

Now they say; "we don't mind not having the top speed its just fun getting there".
A tuned 300 hp winder is not all about top speed.
Try running corner to corner with one, it will make the ski doo feel like a paddle boat!

 

[Doc Harley]

Hey, joe
Which pooch did you end up getting? Lol
You guys still holding hands & singing praise......lol.

 

[XP123]

Hey, joe
Which pooch did you end up getting? Lol
You guys still holding hands & singing praise......lol.

I got a Renegade X. there was no way I was spending what they wanted for the Mach. Even though I love snowmobiling these winters suck more and more. I’m into Corvettes now and I golf almost every day in Summer. I have a 2022 C8 and will be ordering a 2023 Z06 as soon as my allocation comes in. If I want to go fast I could get real Close to 200 mph with it.

 

[Doc Harley]

I got a Renegade X. there was no way I was spending what they wanted for the Mach. Even though I love snowmobiling these winters suck more and more. I’m into Corvettes now and I golf almost every day in Summer. I have a 2022 C8 and will be ordering a 2023 Z06 as soon as my allocation comes in. If I want to go fast I could get real Close to 200 mph with it.

Yeah, $25k is a bit much. Especially with the way the seasons go.
There's plenty of snow in the UP of Michigan & Northern Wisconsin. Conditions perfect. I just flew in from Florida, life at the beach can't be beat.
'23 Z only hitting 200mph?!?! My '06 Z was capable of that, just didn't spin 8500rpms to get there. Beautiful car, btw.
I think it's all in the aero.

Congratulations