On the hunt for z daffy ducks.

[Fast]

Three people I know had trips ruined because of some of the easy fixes you mentioned. Rockerdan had the screw in the adjuster back out and destroy the case. Another guy I know had the hose in the tunnel rip out from ice and he was stuck up in Quebec for a couple days before getting a ride to pick up his truck. Another friend of mine had the oil tank seal blow out and ruin his trip in Northern Ontario. The turning point for me is my oil tank seal blew and that was long after I did the ROV delete. I could go on Mike but I don’t want to. I don’t have the time or patience to deal with all the nonsense because honestly I have no interest is going 120 mph or need 300 HP. I enjoy trail riding on groomed trails and my favorite is saddlebag trips Where at times I’m three days ride from my truck. That is the reason I ride what I do.
Don’t get the idea that I don’t like my Winder because I really enjoyed everything about it. the ride and handling was awesome and the engine was a dream come true. You do remember when I posted what a fantastic sled it was and you told me I was full of crap and the procross chassis was absolute garbage right.

Ya it was sad watching Dan gernade his sled while we were getting all the fixes done. Seems like he was one step behind on every fix while we were one step ahead,now it seems like he has to start all over again with the Doo since it doesn't perform from the get go where the srx or cat perform right away

 

[Doc Harley]

8G ? Damn that is a lot of coin! We don't know how good we have it on these Yamacats!

I don't understand what's going on. Lol. Just glad it's not me.

 

[Fast]

That’s nothing. I’ve gone over 150 mph one handed And not even a wiggle and I was in total control. That was in my Corvette.

hahaha you had me until you said 150mph in a vette

 

[earthling]

Here are MY findings for over 600 miles this weekend.
An SRX should NOT have a problem with a Mach.
BUT i will dispel some things right here right now.
I pulled every 850 from beginning to end on my 900R. Not sure who's loosing this battle.

STOCK SLEDS:
That means suspensions set up for high speed cornering with skis on ground, can handle bumps, no tunes, regular windshields, normal pick set up & in this case; SAME.
On hard pack against my old ECOTRAIL Winder i'd give him the hit from 5-70 mph. This sled would pull a stock Winder easily in middle.
Don't forget i set both these sleds up for MY riding.
I would jolt ahead by a length or more EVERY TIME. That's after i let him go.
The snow dust was extreme due to cold so we'd have to let off for safety cuz nite & snow dust is dangerous.
When we got to lake next day the snow was loose & we tried to pack it down some.
I lost my advantage of the DOO weight transfer, but he lost his top end advantage.
I beat him to .3 miles 8 of 10 times.
He was catching me right there, but cuz of THESE conditions it wasn't much. Never really got a top end race, but i'm sure what will happen.
I also don't know how well that sled is running right now top rpm wise. Hard to look at a tach on a trail at those speeds.

BOTTOM LINE:
Most guys are NOT gonna race you. 998 is KING PERIOD. Everybody relax.
Ski Doo's transfer weight well.
This is actually their downfall in the trails. For 25 years riding any Doo means trying to keep front end on ground.
This lack of transfer on the Winder is good for high speed trails but sucks for acceleration. Pick your poison.

Now about these 850's
I ran an 850 Poo & 2 Doo's and it wasn't really a race.
As a matter of fact i rode them all.
On the big trails the Winder was so PRECISE & Confident like a Cadillac. I DOO miss that.
The POO was absolutely AMAZING suspension wise. NOTHING IS EVEN CLOSE TO IT!
I still hate 2-strokes.
My sled lofts over hills better than ALL of them & pulls away on corners.

The reality is this, these 2 sleds run very identical speed wise on a trail. Side by side a lot. BOTH destroying the 850's.
It really came down to rider in this case...........................

You know all of this because you have the data or is this just feeling? Not trying to start anything but claims like "I would jolt ahead by a length or more every time' are a bit much. Absolute statements like that in the ever changing conditions we ride in don't mean much. What matters to you as the buyer is what you feel, and to you it feels like a quicker machine up to a point. Awesome, if that makes you happy you cannot ask for more. But to turn around and use it as a very wide brush to declare 'every time' is something altogether different. To be clear, I almost bought a 900r yesterday so I have no dog in the fight.

You also state 'the doo transfers weight well'.. what does that mean because all I see is skis to the sky which is not proper weight transfer. If there is any lifting of the front skis it is energy that isn't dedicated to propelling you forward. There is a reason dragsters don't like to wheelie.

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

You know all of this because you have the data or is this just feeling? Not trying to start anything but claims like "I would jolt ahead by a length or more every time' are a bit much. Absolute statements like that in the ever changing conditions we ride in don't mean much. What matters to you as the buyer is what you feel, and to you it feels like a quicker machine up to a point. Awesome, if that makes you happy you cannot ask for more. But to turn around and use it as a very wide brush to declare 'every time' is something altogether different. To be clear, I almost bought a 900r yesterday so I have no dog in the fight.

You also state 'the doo transfers weight well'.. what does that mean because all I see is skis to the sky which is not proper weight transfer. If there is any lifting of the front skis it is energy that isn't dedicated to propelling you forward. There is a reason dragsters don't like to wheelie.

You want to buy my Machz when it arrives?

 

[earthling]

You want to buy my Machz when it arrives?

LOL, Thats a no but don't tempt me it was bad enough at the dealer the other day.. The one I was looking at was a renegade X Turbo, it was going for slightly less than retail, 3 yr warranty, uncrated as of today, and my sled was going through the dealer to reduce taxes. Even with all of that I just couldn't do it. Right now I have an attak and the only thing I don't like about it is the fact that my wife can't handle it (its too much for her). Of course if I made the mistake of riding a winder or a newer apex I would probably not be happy with the attak either.

 

[stevewithOCD]

You know all of this because you have the data or is this just feeling? Not trying to start anything but claims like "I would jolt ahead by a length or more every time' are a bit much. Absolute statements like that in the ever changing conditions we ride in don't mean much. What matters to you as the buyer is what you feel, and to you it feels like a quicker machine up to a point. Awesome, if that makes you happy you cannot ask for more. But to turn around and use it as a very wide brush to declare 'every time' is something altogether different. To be clear, I almost bought a 900r yesterday so I have no dog in the fight.

You also state 'the doo transfers weight well'.. what does that mean because all I see is skis to the sky which is not proper weight transfer. If there is any lifting of the front skis it is energy that isn't dedicated to propelling you forward. There is a reason dragsters don't like to wheelie.

I'll answer this first. I don't think you're questioning me just trying to get the facts.
I would pull up to him on the left throughout the night & look at him.
They all know what i'm up to. I'm a PITA i admit it
It was a 4 lane State Road in Millinocket Maine. Super Cold.
It's actually a road under the snow. It has big sweeping corners & some hills & obviously straightaways.
I would nod & he'd GO. Then i would punch it, pass him by a sleddish, then who ever got ahead caused a snow dust storm so the guy in back HAD to let off.
On this night, on this trail it was 30 plus times. Not a feeling, just the way it happened.

Funny thing is i had a DRAGY, but i haven't played with it yet so it was useless plus we were just riding.
Same thing next day. Except 70 & up we would stay even for some time until the guy on the left had to let down to be safe.
Surprised us both.
Lakes are the only place to really do this safely for any distance.
ALL sleds today are STUPID fast & we're talking like 5 Mississippi's on a trail. To be safe that is.

When i say "Transfers Weight" i mean weight to the track to get most traction.
Skis 1/4'' off ground is fast not at the sky.
I have my blocks at minimum & it still pulls skis just off the ground. I have to be on gas cap to keep it down which is how i ride high speed corners anyways.
My Winder i had the blocks out to barely get skis loose, but it carved up fast corners nice.

Being 170 lbs i could never get my LTX Winder to hook at low speeds.
My RTX Winder with 270 hp & 192 studs hooked good, but it was slow on top. Different story.....

 

[stevewithOCD]

soo as history will dictate, back in 2003 the F7 was a rocket for a 700 cc sled, would get great fuel economy and hit the mid teens out of box with 1.25 track and 10 tooth drived and 13.5 track.... then came 2004 F7 NIGHT FIRE .. square, triangle OR circle ecu box's..... they would get terrible fuel economy and would barely do 107 mph with the 9 tooth drivers.... are group complained soo much that CAT actually contacted our dealer in TORONTO and said " who the f are these guys??? we had a long 5 day ride scheduled for northern quebec... we all switched our tracks to 1.5"because of snow conditions, Cat then asked our dealer to have us send the ECU back for reflashing.... SERIOUSLY...!!! we sent monday morning and had them back in our hands thursday just in time to leave Cat also asked for a feed back from us after the weekend.. we all put them on (4 of us) and left without testing, we got @ 40miles more to a tank and could now get 114mph out of sled.... we then put 10 tooth drivers on with stock track and got 118mph the next week..... So what im Hinting at here is that i would bet that there will be a re flash come out for these R's and itll prob wake them up as the aftermarkets ecu are doing... as we know from tuning these 998, there re alot of gains to be had.
PS and because of what Cat did for us... as a nobody back then sort of made me loyal and back then we pounded these sleds and use to get off and shake our heads and say how the hell are they still in one piece!!

I don't think DOO is gonna DOO anything.
They claimed 180 & they can stand by that.
I think they're scared to let anyone boost it more like Mike says.
I think Yamaha purposely let their ECU's get tapped into to.

 

[earthling]

T

I'll answer this first. I don't think you're questioning me just trying to get the facts.
I would pull up to him on the left throughout the night & look at him.
They all know what i'm up to.
It was a 4 lane State Road in Millinocket Maine. Super Cold.
It's actually a road under the snow. It has big sweeping corners & some hills & obviously straightaways.
I would nod & he'd GO. Then i would punch it, pass him by a sleddish, then who ever got ahead caused a snow dust storm so the guy in back HAD to let off.
On this night, on this trail it was 30 plus times. Not a feeling, just the way it happened.

Funny thing is i had a DRAGY, but i haven't played with it yet so it was useless plus we were just riding.
Same thing next day. Except 70 & up we would stay even for some time until the guy on the left had to let down to be safe.
Surprised us both.
Lakes are the only place to really do this safely for any distance.
ALL sleds today are STUPID fast & we're talking like 5 Mississippi's on a trail. To be safe that is.

When i say "Transfers Weight" i mean weight to the track to get most traction.
Skis 1/4'' off ground is fast not at the sky.
I have my blocks at minimum & it still pulls skis just off the ground. I have to be on gas cap to keep it down which is how i ride high speed corners anyways.
My Winder i had the blocks out to barely get skis loose, but it carved up fast corners nice.

Being 170 lbs i could never get my LTX Winder to hook at low speeds.
My RTX Winder with 270 hp & 192 studs hooked good, but it was slow on top. Different story.....

Absolutely not dinging you in any way, thanks for sharing, getting qualification helps sort the signal from the noise. Especially about the weight transfer, over on dootalk I see a lot of guys who think standing the sled up is the equivalent of 'good weight transfer' only to turn around and complain about cornering under power..

 

[stevewithOCD]

OCD, what you have to remember is your Renegade 900R is the lightest version they make of that model. As I recall its like 50-60 lbs lighter than the heavyweight Mack, which is huge. Add in the fact that you are a lightweight runt and it makes for a decent power to weight ratio, or at least it should.

My buddy owns a Mack and is getting driven around by the 850s with equal rider weights. So he really isn't happy like most all the other fellas with the Mack. His is pulling RPM up where it should up at 7900 too. They have an issue that they don't run like a 193HP sled should. You can be happy because you are not getting driven around by the 850's, but most of them are and I feel for them. They are pissed as they should be. My old modded 1200 NA sled which I know didn't go over 155HP has run a higher 124MPH Dreameter speeds than any of the 900R has run from the reports I see over there which just isn't right. The 900R has no more suspension travel in it than that 1200 did. Same thing if you look at the specs. I dont see that being the reason for the poor speeds of the 900R.

The funny part is no one is dynoning them, checking boost levels or even intercooler temps to even start diagnosing where the problem lies with it to cheat what BRP gave you. They all are changing weights, springs and belts on the dang thing. Pretty crazy! You need to start with the basics and find out were the power is first. Is the power there or not? How many seconds in the dyno run before the power falls off? Is the power falling off over time? These questions need answered before you start pulling clutching back. I've never pulled the clutching away from a a race sled and won a race! You first must fix and address the power issue.

I know exactly why the dont make for a good underdog like the 1200 was. Doo knows too. They intentionally chose the package they did and locked the ECU like a padlocked chastity belt. They don't want them going fast and they sure don't want them going any faster from the aftermarket. Sure the aftermarket has now the ability to swap ECU's out, but the gains are still minimal compared to the 998.

Good points.
I can only tell MY story.
My sled weighed in at 622 then 610 with Lightweight Battery. Throw in my 170lb skinny arse & i have a small advantage over most.
People are starting to put boost gauges on & they are only pulling 14 to 15psi. Remember we are ALL having late snow.
I don't feel there will be any updates or changes.
I will NOT spend 3-$4000 to bump up HP!
I don't NEED it that bad.
I'm trying for 6000 miles this year so i want very close to stock.

998 is KING!
AND it can be boosted to be SUPER KING! For small $$$$ also
After riding my old Winder on some ridiculous trails, i doo miss it, but then i lofted my sled over a hill, i was off the ground, tapped the brake to level it off, back on throttle & STUCK the landing. Threw out my Underooos later.

I'm having fun
I'm not wrenching
I'm riding

TBH: I sort of want a Polaris with a Yamaha 4-Stroke in it

 

[Confused]

ALL sleds today are STUPID fast & we're talking like 5 Mississippi's on a trail. To be safe that is.

lol my favorite line

 

[stevewithOCD]

T

Absolutely not dinging you in any way, thanks for sharing, getting qualification helps sort the signal from the noise. Especially about the weight transfer, over on dootalk I see a lot of guys who think standing the sled up is the equivalent of 'good weight transfer' only to turn around and complain about cornering under power..

I get ya
It's gotten better since they changed a position on the front arm.
But as most know that's what Doo's do.
Different riding styles here.
Bumps you want to get the front up. That's why the new LYNX is a bump BEAST.
High speed sweeping corners you need skis on ground digging in. Procross GREAT at that.
Drag racing & accelerating just light skis is good but still need all weight on track.
I try somewhere in the middle which is why i am all over sled.
I'm like a circus act out there. My friends love to follow me. They get tired watching me. Then they don't see me.

Believe me when i tell you this. The Polaris you can do both.
Sit back & get skis up.
Move forward & they stay planted & FLAT! As in you don't have to lean!

I am not Brand Loyal or Blinded.
I RIDE.....it's what i do
2 years on this sled
If Poo Poo comes with a 4-stroker...............................i may have to have a write up here AND on DooTalk

 

[BV1200]

Obviously some ppl haven't ran there sidewinders against a motec 1200 bc them sleds will embarrass a sidewinder. I know a couple ppl that bragged about there sidewinder tuned up etc. Etc. Fastest sled blah blah blah. Until they raced a motec 1200. That shut em up in a hurry.

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

Kinda like running a 2022 900 against a stock Sidewinder

 

[NYTurbo]

Obviously some ppl haven't ran there sidewinders against a motec 1200 bc them sleds will embarrass a sidewinder. I know a couple ppl that bragged about there sidewinder tuned up etc. Etc. Fastest sled blah blah blah. Until they raced a motec 1200. That shut em up in a hurry.

1200 had a stock turbo ?