Seat Time-Belt feedback after alignment with Hurricane Tool

[JPS]

Im hopeful but not expecting this to fix belt life completely.

For most of us, there is not enough snow in most areas to actually put miles on. We just lost 10" today on this stupid one day warm up . So we still have our base but gonna be awhile now waiting. Might just blow 2hrs north of here to Qc and ride if this keeps up much longer.

I have come down from 62mm to 57mm.....since my last blown belt, so maybe that is significant enough? I would love to come on here claiming its fixed...but with 270hp and riding hard corner to corner, I have a feeling belt life will never be much higher then 500-800 miles or so.

Dan

 

[JPS]

I wish the snow was only 2 hours away when i wanted to ride, I would drive the 2 hours to just ride for the afternoon.

 

[staggs65]

The solution on my 270+ sled was to go with a stepper helix and more spring. After that it hasnt blow a belt. Before i had maybe 300miles per belt maximum and now i have over 1000miles on same belt with much corner to corner and even lose snow.

^^^ this

 

[STAIN]

Or steeper helix same spring........

 

[ROCKERDAN]

The solution on my 270+ sled was to go with a stepper helix and more spring. After that it hasnt blow a belt. Before i had maybe 300miles per belt maximum and now i have over 1000miles on same belt with much corner to corner and even lose snow.

Are you talking steeper then say, 41/37 or so? Just wondering. And are you just adding more twist to spring then or a diff spring altogether?

Dan

 

[STAIN]

I have a straight 40 on order. I will start with the stock secondary spring and then try the Dalton Orange. Your primary weight profile has an effect on your helix angle. I am trying to stay away from the mongo secondary springs as I believe they hurt clutch efficiency. I may be wrong but if you make your motor work to move the sled forward instead of working to open the clutch I believe it is a more efficient way. I am trying to find the edge of where the helix angle/spring combo is JUST enough to hold the belt and provide adequate shift.
I do know of a record setting 500hp Apex running stock clutch springs front and rear, but it is strictly a top speed machine, not trail.

 

[STAIN]

Let me ask this. I am out in the garage setting up/measuring my offset--again. I put my secondary on and did not bolt it down at all. I then ran the sled on the stand and let the secondary float to where ever it wanted. I then measured the offset where it came to rest. 61.5mm. Why is this not the correct place to let the secondary run? I know the sheaves move a little during shift but this much?
With no bolt in the secondary I can push it in to my 57.5mm setting and the belt pushes it back out toward 60mm

 

[Doowithblue]

The stock spring has minimal side force but has a lot of torsional sensitivity. For example if one chooses 6/1 over 3/3 its quite a difference vs other options in secondary springs. Note the stock spring has the largest wire diameter of them all. The formula for compression load is similar to coil springs in suspension. Dale from dalton has touched on this in another thread.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Let me ask this. I am out in the garage setting up/measuring my offset--again. I put my secondary on and did not bolt it down at all. I then ran the sled on the stand and let the secondary float to where ever it wanted. I then measured the offset where it came to rest. 61.5mm. Why is this not the correct place to let the secondary run? I know the sheaves move a little during shift but this much?
With no bolt in the secondary I can push it in to my 57.5mm setting and the belt pushes it back out toward 60mm

Sheave angles are different between primary clutch and secondary clutch. Primary has a slightly steeper angle than the secondary. As the sheaves shift out the belt moves towards the inside sheaves of both clutches at a slightly different rate. So that said you can have only perfect alignment at one point in the shift. Your setting up for perfectly straight clutches at 1:1 shift with 57~58mm, they won’t be straight at engagement.

 

[STAIN]

Then setting your 1:1 alignment at @ 58mm and letting it float @2mm be ideal?

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I will add.....

My blows seem to be snaps, which means tearing belts in two.

This IMO means incredible force to snap belt, where as alignment issues usually make heat and tear/pull cords then shred belts, not so much snap.

So, could this "too low" angle helix be the culprit all along? YAM using a low angle to help add backpressure, could this be just too low and causing far too much pressure which snaps belt? Also making the big tune HP snap them just that much easier/faster.

So will a steeper helix allow it to upshift faster, with less stress on belt(pulling it apart) but more spring to still stop slippage, is this different in some way then lower angle with less spring?

So question is:

What is difference between a Shallow helix and less spring VS a steep helix and more spring?

In theory they should both have good backpressure, but will steeper helix setup have less stress on pulling belts apart?

Dan

 

[ClutchMaster]

Then setting your 1:1 alignment at @ 58mm and letting it float @2mm be ideal?

Some guys like to float the clutches, I never have. I’m not sure if it really moves around under loaded belt conditions?

 

[Bigblue1]

So on the stand, when I nail the throttle, let it slow down and nail the throttle again, the clutch is smooth as silk, trying to simulate going into a turn and out. But when I nail the throttle and brake hard (simulating going into a corner hot) and hit it again the belt chirps loud for a split second. The secondary does not seem to go back all the way to the adjuster , which I have right at factory belt setting. Anyone know what this can be?

Seems if I set the belt lower in the secondary it does not happen. Also not going all the way up on primary.

My belts explode into a bunch of pieces. Better now but blew stock as well. I last got 1,200 mile on belt before the tool.

 

[ClutchMaster]

I will add.....

My blows seem to be snaps, which means tearing belts in two.

This IMO means incredible force to snap belt, where as alignment issues usually make heat and tear/pull cords then shred belts, not so much snap.

So, could this "too low" angle helix be the culprit all along? YAM using a low angle to help add backpressure, could this be just too low and causing far too much pressure which snaps belt? Also making the big tune HP snap them just that much easier/faster.

So will a steeper helix allow it to upshift faster, with less stress on belt(pulling it apart) but more spring to still stop slippage, is this different in some way then lower angle with less spring?

So question is:

What is difference between a Shallow helix and less spring VS a steep helix and more spring?

In theory they should both have good backpressure, but will steeper helix setup have less stress on pulling belts apart?

Dan

Yes I totally agree that the 35 degree stock helix seems to be causing to much belt tension. IMO Yamaha set the clutch alignment to be straight with the clutches at engagement or around there. Then to compensate for the secondary getting pushed open at full shift, used a very low helix angle and stiffer spring wound tight.
Generally speaking a low helix angle produces higher belt tension and slows the shift more, it also makes for responsive clutching.
Springs that are weaker will help shift somewhat faster but are more of a fine tuning tool once the helix is close.
Yamaha has always used springs with fairly weak springs and low helix numbers. A/C has a different theory, they use stiffer springs and steeper angle helixes. (More of a drag setup)
I think TD has good luck running the 35 helix because a lot of the sleds that are tuned have taller gears also. Slowing down the shift makes sense. But with a tuned winder and stock gears you need to let those clutches open faster, a higher angle will do this better than just a spring change.
Totally agree with you about to much belt tension, I feel you guys are heading in the right direction with helixes and offsets. Now the fun part....TESTING!


PS Steveo is out right now beating it!

 

[Bigblue1]

So on the stand, when I nail the throttle, let it slow down and nail the throttle again, the clutch is smooth as silk, trying to simulate going into a turn and out. But when I nail the throttle and brake hard (simulating going into a corner hot) and hit it again the belt chirps loud for a split second. The secondary does not seem to go back all the way to the adjuster , which I have right at factory belt setting. Anyone know what this can be?

Seems if I set the belt lower in the secondary it does not happen. Also not going all the way up on primary.

My belts explode into a bunch of pieces. Better now but blew stock as well. I last got 1,200 mile on belt before the tool.

Anyone? Could really use advice on this. Just seeking piece of mind l guess.