Some fun testing - motec sidewinder

[sledding rocks]

Sounds like the header is working well. It’s too bad we can’t get our hands on some programming software for our sleds. I wish I had timing control, I heard the pcv ignition module doesn’t work that well. F-it I’ll probab get a stand-alone next year anyway.

the iat climb very fast with these big tunes this promotes knock quickly also , the stock intercooler can't handle this , I have since went with a aftermarket 3 inch intercooler , this has been a big improvement for my sled , I have seen a 20 degree cooler iat , which helps a lot on long distance wot ,

 

[Brent68]

stock fuel pressure was 43 psi , but I was seeing 13.1 a/f , with knock at roughly 1500 ft , then I added the fuel reg and turned it up to 48 psi to bring done the a/f to 12.3-12.4. so far no knock , idle good /cruising also good , , yes I have seen the fuel milage decrease , the header and 3inch exhaust combo needs more fuel for sure , power is strong , very trail friendly also , the nice thing about the fuel reg its simply to adjust , thanks for your response clutch master , the fuel reg is new to me , just not sure what the limits r by turning it up ,

I believe the stock fuel pressure is 48.5 psi or maybe that's what TD suggested as a starting point? The max spool tune with 2.5 inch exhaust and no header was 11.5 a/f before we turned the pressure down. I wouldn't be afraid to turn the pressure up a some, 12.3-12.4 is pretty lean on a pump gas tune. Even when I get very confident everything is working well together, on pump gas, the leanest I go is 12.2 and that's just for short runs. We didn't have the knock light trigger on the dash. It was only visible in a log file. If I remeber correctly, it was pulling .5 degrees of timing or less. Just one run, on spool up, it pulled a little over 1 degree.

 

[sledding rocks]

I believe the stock fuel pressure is 48.5 psi or maybe that's what TD suggested as a starting point? The max spool tune with 2.5 inch exhaust and no header was 11.5 a/f before we turned the pressure down. I wouldn't be afraid to turn the pressure up a some, 12.3-12.4 is pretty lean on a pump gas tune. Even when I get very confident everything is working well together, on pump gas, the leanest I go is 12.2 and that's just for short runs. We didn't have the knock light trigger on the dash. It was only visible in a log file. If I remeber correctly, it was pulling .5 degrees of timing or less. Just one run, on spool up, it pulled a little over 1 degree.

td sugessted 46-48 psi , stock 43 psi , ill turn it up and see were that brings me at , thanks

 

[Tarzan]

td sugessted 46-48 psi , stock 43 psi , ill turn it up and see were that brings me at , thanks

Be careful,do you know what the fuel pump can deliver? And the higher evalation you ride more have the fuel pump must deliver. If the fuel pump is maxed out and the injectors then it can be a problem in higher evalations

 

[sledding rocks]

Be careful,do you know what the fuel pump can deliver? And the higher evalation you ride more have the fuel pump must deliver. If the fuel pump is maxed out and the injectors then it can be a problem in higher evalations

thanks , were at 700ft , the sled has a td fuel pump , not sure what it is rated at , the only reason I asked my question , was bret68 stated some interesting a/f reading , I don't want to steel Brent68 post of his tuning project , im glad to see tuner like brent68 and clutch master r on this site to share there wealth of knowledge , I will increase my fuel reg to bring down my a/f in the high 11 to be safe ,

 

[Brent68]

I'd like to see you try a Dalton White Cat or Black/Lime torsion spring. I'm of the opinion that the Black/Orange is just not enough spring for this big power. You also may like going to the 8DN belts as well. I ran a heavier driven spring last week with great success, and the 8DN made things much more consistent as well. This would help with your overshifting down low too. The Dalton Cat white is equal to a Cat sno-pro green.

Set the Cat torsions at 9-1 or 0-1 as a starting point.

I was never happy with the Black/Orange for the trail and the lack of top end with it. IMO not enough side pressure to prevent driven belt slippage. Seems fine up to 240-250 real HP, beyond that I don't think its enough spring myself. May be fine for ice or hadpack, snow and hard pulling not enough pressure to stay hooked on the belt.

Great idea on the spring change! Thanks! My RPM wondering was largely caused by belt slip in the secondary. Still have some traction issues, but I can fix that easy if I really wont a solid hook off the line. Ended up with Dalton White Cat at 9-1. Even better, I can't believe what I was missing in the mid-range, totally different feel. I let some others have some seat time on it and they came back with a big grin. Temps were higher so I might need to add a little weight in the primary when it's colder, I'm just barely off the rev limiter on initial spool. No helix change. Ordered a couple 8DNs to try.

The secondary does run hotter but no belt issues with 150 miles on the trails this weekend.

Thanks again!

 

[Brent68]

Have you watched to motec webinar about pid.
These are the three parameters the motec uses for boost control.
Another thing to look at that had a major effect on initial overboost is the margin setting, margin determins when the boost controller becomes active. If margin is set to close to aim it will cause a boost overshoot because the motec is late to the game and boost is already ramping up quicker than it can calculate where it needs to be.
Pid requires very small adjustments to the values. Fun stuff dialing these in

Thanks for the suggestion on PID control. My boost ramp holds within 6kpa of target and have full compliance with AIM within .5 seconds. Subtle adjustments to the Margin, I and D controls and it worked great. Thanks again!

 

[KnappAttack]

View attachment 145795

Great idea on the spring change! Thanks! My RPM wondering was largely caused by belt slip in the secondary. Still have some traction issues, but I can fix that easy if I really wont a solid hook off the line. Ended up with Dalton White Cat at 9-1. Even better, I can't believe what I was missing in the mid-range, totally different feel. I let some others have some seat time on it and they came back with a big grin. Temps were higher so I might need to add a little weight in the primary when it's colder, I'm just barely off the rev limiter on initial spool. No helix change. Ordered a couple 8DNs to try.

The secondary does run hotter but no belt issues with 150 miles on the trails this weekend.

Thanks again!

Glad to hear its working, I knew it would for you. The Black/Orange is not near enough to keep a hold on the belt up over 240 HP range.

I'm finding even with the heavy springs they sometimes need wrapped up even more depending on the conditions. I was on the lake a week ago running about 120 and backed off from 0-2 down to 9-1 and was slipping the belt again, but it all depends on the belt being used along with the helix. I'm finding you still can't pout the helix to it. Maybe stiffer springs yet are needed for helix angles like the 41-37 and therabouts.

You will like that 8DN! It will upshift and back shift better as well, but you have to up the pressure in the secondary and primary weights in the heel a bit too. Once you get it dialed in for that belt, you will find it to be quick and fast! Don't be afraid to crank more into that secondary spring! They won't MPH without a bunch of pressure in the secondary.

 

[Brent68]

Glad to hear its working, I knew it would for you. The Black/Orange is not near enough to keep a hold on the belt up over 240 HP range.

I'm finding even with the heavy springs they sometimes need wrapped up even more depending on the conditions. I was on the lake a week ago running about 120 and backed off from 0-2 down to 9-1 and was slipping the belt again, but it all depends on the belt being used along with the helix. I'm finding you still can't pout the helix to it. Maybe stiffer springs yet are needed for helix angles like the 41-37 and therabouts.

You will like that 8DN! It will upshift and back shift better as well, but you have to up the pressure in the secondary and primary weights in the heel a bit too. Once you get it dialed in for that belt, you will find it to be quick and fast! Don't be afraid to crank more into that secondary spring! They won't MPH without a bunch of pressure in the secondary.

How in the heck do you wrap it to 0-2, I could barely muscle the 9-1 setting. Those things are a pain to wrap that tight!

 

[KnappAttack]

How in the heck do you wrap it to 0-2, I could barely muscle the 9-1 setting. Those things are a pain to wrap that tight!

Put a roll of duct tape on the ground under the secondary and hold the clutch with your knees. Wrap the helix with both your hands. Nothing to it.

The roll of tape holds the clutch together while your knees hold the clutch from spinning while turning the helix and installing. 9-1 would be the min setting. I had belt slip on 9-1 with 39-35 when using the Dayco XTX wile using the Team primary. 0-1 worked fine for me using straight 35 with that particular primary setup and belt.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, they need LOTS of pressure with higher power settings, more helix angle and more load on the snow or trail say with lots of traction or high lug tracks. Light driven springs can't hold from slipping, and with belts like they are today, you don't always see the clear signs of slippage in the clutches or even feel it as heat in the clutches it happens so fast. Usually it's just lacking in acceleration or mostly speed. The slippage I have found is usually happing up over 100 as the belt gets into a smaller area on the driven.

Another thing is to keep an eye on the rollers too. This heavy pressure is going to take its toll on them. They will wear fast. I've ordered up some Hi-Torques with the added abuse of the higher secondary pressures I'm running now.

 

[journeyman]

Glad to hear its working, I knew it would for you. The Black/Orange is not near enough to keep a hold on the belt up over 240 HP range.

I'm finding even with the heavy springs they sometimes need wrapped up even more depending on the conditions. I was on the lake a week ago running about 120 and backed off from 0-2 down to 9-1 and was slipping the belt again, but it all depends on the belt being used along with the helix. I'm finding you still can't pout the helix to it. Maybe stiffer springs yet are needed for helix angles like the 41-37 and therabouts.

You will like that 8DN! It will upshift and back shift better as well, but you have to up the pressure in the secondary and primary weights in the heel a bit too. Once you get it dialed in for that belt, you will find it to be quick and fast! Don't be afraid to crank more into that secondary spring! They won't MPH without a bunch of pressure in the secondary.

I sure like the prices of the 8DN, see them for about $57.00

Wondering if I should buy one of those for a spare? I am sitting on two 8JP's right now.

 

[ktmhk53]

Hi Brent68,
Any updates on your sled?

 

[Brent68]

Hi Brent68,
Any updates on your sled?

I haven't been on the site for a while as I had to deal with a planned medical issue which cut my season short. Now that I'm about healed up, I'm back at it. I have started the off season upgrades. Although this is going to remain a trail sled with stock suspension height, it won't be my daily driver. The goal is to make it as capable as the motec doo in a snow drag at boost levels up to 30 psi. Here's a list of items being changed:

1. Carillo rods, CP pistions.
2. Ported head - Tommcat Performance.
3. ARP head studs.
4. Multilayer cometic head gasket.
5. Upgraded valves/valve springs with swain coat on exhaust valves.
6. TD high lift cam with H-duty timing chain and manual tensioner.
7. TD trail header, this will be modified for divorced waste gate.
8. Track, driveshaft and drivers.
9. Gearing change - 21/38.

I'm going to clean up the "weak links", that I haven't already addressed, mentioned in other threads. The stock primary will likely have to be changed, but haven't pulled the trigger on which route to go. I have all the parts in my garage except the header (awaiting delivery) and the head (being machined). I honestly enjoy the off season of sledding almost as much as riding.....almost.

 

[Mototown]

If your rollers bushings push out , try these duralon bushings, they fit a lot tighter. I put some bearing lock tight on surface of bushings. Going to test this week in UP Michigan

 

[creep]

Anything further happening with this build?