TD Max Pump 17 Issues

[Turbo Dynamics]

"My guess is the tune as well. Did you talk to Ben? Maybe you have the incorrect version for your setup or there is an update you need?"


Well....tried that, but he's a tough guy to get a hold of.

During the update it's been tough. I've been on the phone all day answering PMs and Facebook messages.

Send me your log click upload or share.
I can do a lot. More when I see everything.

Max should turn a lot. More. Rpm. Unless you have a boost leak... Which is very possible.

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[Turbo Dynamics]

Thanks for chiming in Dan, but I don't have the data logger, it's Max 17 all the time.





No data logger and no boost gauge. Swapping hoses on BOV.....do I simply unhook large hoses, turn BOV and re-attach opposite?? Where should I buy a good BOV and how much are they?

Reverse the blow off valve works great as shown on. Pic....

When you get a chance buy a turbo smart we sell them now.

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[Turbo Dynamics]

flame away boys but last year I felt my ecotrail was stronger than this years pt cai. Not sure why. I'm now on Hurricane so never found out why.

Pt cai is way more powerful than ecotrail when nothing is wrong with the sled. Not even close.

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[Beerman]

Pt cai is way more powerful than ecotrail when nothing is wrong with the sled. Not even close.

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Yes. If you had better results with ET than PT it's something else. I had an issue today with the GAP jukebox and it defaulted to ET without me realizing - big difference! PT/CAI is WAY more power, snap and performance than ET.

 

[Beerman]

I believe I'm being haunted by a gremlin and would be interested in hearing input in developing a path forward in hopefully finding a cure. First a little history:

2017 Yamaha Sidewinder RTX SE with 2200 miles, bought brand new last winter, put TD Eco Trail Flash with a SQ muffler. For clutching I ran Dalton QAY-70 weights loaded with the 1 inch allen (4.1 grams) for a total of 74.1 grams. Springs/helix everything else stock except for updated torlon rollers in rear secondary. Sled would spin 9000-9100, once in a while if hot running is soft snow might drop to 8900. Sled ran flawless all winter and was a blast.

This year I loaded TD Max Pump 17 and also a CAI and OSP Racing muffler which is basically the same as a TD Turboforce. Per Ben's instructions I loaded Qay-70s to the hilt at 77.4. Would only spin 8300, so dropped weights a gram to 76.3, would spin 8400, dropped weights another gram to 75.4 and added stiffer secondary spring (TPI orange) and would spin 8700. Bear in mind, I know this thing isn't right so I'm holding it 4-5 seconds and letting go as it doesn't feel right. In my head I'm thinking the sled feels no different than last year and my butt dyno is telling that this thing isn't making the claimed 285 hp as it should.

So this morning I figured I'd go back to basics and eliminate some variables. I set sled up just like I had it last winter, SQ muffler, stock airbox, Dalton weights loaded to 74.1 grams, stock springs and stock helix. Took sled out for some testing and assumed this thing should be banging off the rev limiter!! To my dismay, would only pull 8700 rpm. It's turning 3-400 rpm less than last years Eco trail????? WTF??? I'm making less power???

So......I'm thinking I must have a boost leak. I removed all the panels, checked......double checked... and then triple checked all the hoses, clamps, air box, intercooler, and can't seem to find anything out of the ordinary. I was thinking perhaps the BOV crapped out so I removed it, checked the plunger and all looks legit. I pushed on the spring valve and it needed a very healthy push with my thumb to get it to open.....so I'm thinking this looks to be sufficient also.

I could take it to the dealer, but he'll blame it on the tune. Does anyone have any ideas on where I should go next?

Did you get in on the boost leak tester PIF? My guess is the BOV or another leak.

 

[@123]

Pt cai is way more powerful than ecotrail when nothing is wrong with the sled. Not even close.

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question about boost leak if you see on the gap dashboard “iphone screen” the right boost number on boost info does it means there is no leak? or you have to do a leak test? thks

 

[Fleecer]

Gentleman, first and foremost, thank you for your time and attention in this matter. I really appreciate the help.

Hadn't seen the family in over a week so spent the day with them......but this issue was eating at me all day. This evening I snuck out to the garage, swapped the BOV around, and headed out for some testing only to get more discouraged. Initially still would only turn 8700. Then twice, it went to 8700 at full whack, fell to 8350 and then slowly made its way back up to 8700. I thought WTF.....held it for a third pull. Once again, it lit up at 8700 and fell to 8350, but then sled started to miss and flames came out the muffler. Babied it home and parked it. Surprisingly, zero to half throttle in the trails it still runs well!!

So...I'm guessing nothing wrong with BOV. Did some hunting on this site and I was able to locate the boost PSI tester from Beerman. Sent Sidehogger a pm to get on the list. If and when I receive it, I guess the next step is to test for boost leaks elsewhere!!

Any other ideas?

 

[ClutchMaster]

Without a boost gauge your stabbing in the dark. Can you view your data log?

 

[1100saber]

Gentleman, first and foremost, thank you for your time and attention in this matter. I really appreciate the help.

Hadn't seen the family in over a week so spent the day with them......but this issue was eating at me all day. This evening I snuck out to the garage, swapped the BOV around, and headed out for some testing only to get more discouraged. Initially still would only turn 8700. Then twice, it went to 8700 at full whack, fell to 8350 and then slowly made its way back up to 8700. I thought WTF.....held it for a third pull. Once again, it lit up at 8700 and fell to 8350, but then sled started to miss and flames came out the muffler. Babied it home and parked it. Surprisingly, zero to half throttle in the trails it still runs well!!

So...I'm guessing nothing wrong with BOV. Did some hunting on this site and I was able to locate the boost PSI tester from Beerman. Sent Sidehogger a pm to get on the list. If and when I receive it, I guess the next step is to test for boost leaks elsewhere!!

Any other ideas?

Any codes show up when it’s missing/sputtering? One thing I’m surprised none of us asked or mentioned earlier is fuel. The max 17 needs good fuel for sure. This is a pre knock protection map, and as per Ben’s recommendation and common sense this map should be run on 94+ octane.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Any codes show up when it’s missing/sputtering? One thing I’m surprised none of us asked or mentioned earlier is fuel. The max 17 needs good fuel for sure. This is a pre knock protection map, and as per Ben’s recommendation and common sense this map should be run on 94+ octane.

Yea that makes sense if your knocking I’m sure the computer pulls boost, timing and richens the mixture.

 

[Turbo Dynamics]

Did you change your fuel from last year? Sounds like you put max 17 on first ride this year.
So you have knock protection enabled on yours? Dropping to 8300 is. Not normal at all. You may be experiencing knock which should not happen on good fuel. Although at 8300rpm the motor is getting lugged.

I would start with the basic. Flush old fuel put fresh premium best kind you can find then put fresh plugs in it... Misfire means change plugs.

Take out 3g out of clutches to let motor rev higher...

Take. It for. A. Short rip.

If it over revs but otherwise run good add 2 g at a time until you run 8900-9000-9100 rpm steady.

BTW I never got your call. I've been taking to people all day answering hundreds of messages.



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[Turbo Dynamics]

Another note..
Ecotrail and powertrail have extra safety features over max 17. They can detect a boost leak And Code. 26 will appear letting you know something is wrong. In. Your case max 17 disables code 26 because it goes slightly beyond stock sensor capabilities. So you could have a serious good t leak without any errors on thr dash.

Check your tunes and all vacuum lines going to regulator something is off with this sled... Have your guy with the flasher run it and check boost and other parameters

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[Fleecer]

Any codes show up when it’s missing/sputtering? One thing I’m surprised none of us asked or mentioned earlier is fuel. The max 17 needs good fuel for sure. This is a pre knock protection map, and as per Ben’s recommendation and common sense this map should be run on 94+ octane.

I'e been buying my fuel from same guy for years without issue (vette, chopper boat etc) as he is only one in town that sells 93 octane. In December I stopped to fuel and he told me he just received a fresh drop of premium 93 four days prior, hence I filled all my gas cans. This was in December, so fuel is maybe 30 days old now. I keep fuel in cold storage so it matches outside temp when I go ride. (Sled is in heated garage) I've been running full tank of 93 with 12 ounces of torco...was thinking about 95 octane. Never had issues with gas here, but stranger things have happened and deinitely a possibility. Will try tank of 91 from different vender with 16 ounce of torco and re-test. Great idea...thanks.

I'm unable to run data logger/flash cable as I was told my ecu is defective and will only take a hard flash. My ecu spent the summer at TD and Ben was unable to figure out why it can' be flashed. Apparently it is rare, as he has only seen three others do this besides mine. Im no computer genius as computers didnt exist when i was in school, but this is how it was explained to me. Ben is the man and I trust him fully!! At this point I'm fairly confident i have a sled issue, not a tune issue. The last thing I want is for this post to turn into a flaming fest. I just want to get this issue resolved.

At any rate, due to reasons listed above, I'm unable to utilize any of the data logging software/detonation light or swap tunes ect. I can only run one tune at a time and must physically ship it to TD to change programming.

Sled does not throw any lights and/or codes. Anything less than wot it runs ok.....I'd estimate probably still making 220-230 hp??

I'm back to work and not sure when I'll have time to conduct more testing. (Like the rest of you I too work 7 days a week) Lol

At any rate, great ideas and I look forward to hopefully curing this. Thank you everyone for the input/assistance and thank you for this site.

 

[Turbo Dynamics]

I'e been buying my fuel from same guy for years without issue (vette, chopper boat etc) as he is only one in town that sells 93 octane. In December I stopped to fuel and he told me he just received a fresh drop of premium 93 four days prior, hence I filled all my gas cans. This was in December, so fuel is maybe 30 days old now. I keep fuel in cold storage so it matches outside temp when I go ride. (Sled is in heated garage) I've been running full tank of 93 with 12 ounces of torco...was thinking about 95 octane. Never had issues with gas here, but stranger things have happened and deinitely a possibility. Will try tank of 91 from different vender with 16 ounce of torco and re-test. Great idea...thanks.

I'm unable to run data logger/flash cable as I was told my ecu is defective and will only take a hard flash. My ecu spent the summer at TD and Ben was unable to figure out why it can' be flashed. Apparently it is rare, as he has only seen three others do this besides mine. Im no computer genius as computers didnt exist when i was in school, but this is how it was explained to me. Ben is the man and I trust him fully!! At this point I'm fairly confident i have a sled issue, not a tune issue. The last thing I want is for this post to turn into a flaming fest. I just want to get this issue resolved.

At any rate, due to reasons listed above, I'm unable to utilize any of the data logging software/detonation light or swap tunes ect. I can only run one tune at a time and must physically ship it to TD to change programming.

Sled does not throw any lights and/or codes. Anything less than wot it runs ok.....I'd estimate probably still making 220-230 hp??

I'm back to work and not sure when I'll have time to conduct more testing. (Like the rest of you I too work 7 days a week) Lol

At any rate, great ideas and I look forward to hopefully curing this. Thank you everyone for the input/assistance and thank you for this site.

Thanks for the details. The fuel looks good according your report.

OK now I remember who you are... after you there were 2 more écus that couldn't flash from the diagnostic port. But they could also be flashed through the direct port.

We decided to investigate further and gap did some testing on their diagnostic port flashing system. We found out that one could only be flashed at room temp and the other had to warmed up to be flash able. That is for sure a rare anomaly in the ecu.

We have yet to see one that doesn't flash at all. We didn't know about this solution back when we tested your Ecu you were the first.

I really want to help and correct this issue. Now that flash I'm sur is fine as you know.

There are 3 solutions:
Easiest solution is trying to figure out the problem. Swap new plugs and gap to. 020 because you now fouled the plugs.
Also find the boost leak... the more I think of it the motor I believe there is a boost leak because as I said max 17 does not have the boost leak code enabled. If you don't reach target boost it will run very badly super rich and not make power. The fireball and misfire leads me to believe you are at 9:1 or low 10 air fuel ratio due to severe underboosting.

2nd solution is the coolest but you will lose ecu for a few days. We will give you the highest priority and ship ecu back express.


We will perform the special procedure to flash it with your own flasher which we will sell you at 40% off regular price for your troubles. And we will flash it using your flasher and put in the jukebox flash which as all the flashes switchable on the fly. That way you won't need to reflash the sled at all. In the event that you want to reflash we will show you the procedure of heating that ecu to x degrees to flash it. Having the flasher will allow you to diagnose the problem as you see all your live values and can datalog and send me the log.

The last solution choice is just borrowing a flasher from us and just using it for diagnostic purpose. You could also do the ecu heating solution to flash your odd ecu that worked with the few other we found like yours.

If you decide to keep the flasher we will give a super deal on it.




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[ROCKERDAN]

I would take that offer! Nice work Ben.