TD MAX SPOOL 16

[DMCTurbo]

Please comment if you have on.
I am going to purchase the TD Max spool 16Sm Tune

I plan to leave everything stock except clutch weights ( NO CAI, NO TS BOV, NO 3 Bar )

I realize TD recommends Dalton QAY-70 weighted to 72 grams.
Questions
1.) can stock clutching work with this set-up?
2.) should I start 70 or 72?
3.) I hear RPM drops with XP’s-825 belt would stock weight work using this belt?
4.) will QAY- 70 empty be too heavy for this set-up 8JP- belt
5.) will QAy-70 empty be too heavy for this set-up XX-825 belt.
6.) what springs and wraps do you recommend?

I'm currently running 73 grams in the QAY70s with Yamaha O-S-O (35/142) primary spring, 35 degree helix and dalton gen 1 black orange secondary spring @ 6-1. Using 8JP belt. I have the TS bov, TD CAI and 3bar map sensor. This runs 89-9000 rpms.

 

[Motorhead]

I will be trying out max 16 sm real soon with 3 bar and turbo smart valve.......parts should be here tommorow and Ill have to get the flash update, I have eco trail sm and I found that made a very big difference over stock. Very docile tune and feels stock till higher in the rpm range. Got 15mpg average last weekend riding with my wife over nearly 200 miles. Some high speed, some low speed running.......little bit of everything and I have 1.75 track and 24/50 gears. I thought that was pretty good

That is very good especially with a 1.75” lug track!
Yes to a very docile tune, and so is the MaxSpool 16 under 6000 rpms. But after that there is no comparison to the Ecotrail tune. And as crazy as that Max Spool 16 tune may be, it is still a mild tune compared to many others! Just WOW!

I enjoy my low end lazy clutch set up and the fact that it really comes to life after that 6K mark, or anytime I crack that throttle.

Hope you enjoy your new tune!

 

[justinator]

Please comment if you have on.
I am going to purchase the TD Max spool 16Sm Tune

I plan to leave everything stock except clutch weights ( NO CAI, NO TS BOV, NO 3 Bar )

I realize TD recommends Dalton QAY-70 weighted to 72 grams.
Questions
1.) can stock clutching work with this set-up?
2.) should I start 70 or 72?
3.) I hear RPM drops with XP’s-825 belt would stock weight work using this belt?
4.) will QAY- 70 empty be too heavy for this set-up 8JP- belt
5.) will QAy-70 empty be too heavy for this set-up XX-825 belt.
6.) what springs and wraps do you recommend?

stock clutching on my 2020 with ecotrail 230hp tune spins the stock clutching to 9000ish with xs825 belt, you'll likely overrev a bit with maxspool. You could add a washer under the rivets on stock weights but the daltons shift much better than stockers and much easier to adjust so well worth it at some point. QAY-70 should work no problem with maxspool 16, My eco trail spun 8600ish with qay-70 and 8Jp for reference, I dont know about using them with xs825.......I will have an answer after the weekend, I have both qay66 and qay70 but Im trying the 70's first when I update to the maxspool16. The stock 35 helix with yamaha yellow spring set a 3-3 has been working well with xs825 on tuned sleds from what I learned reading on this site, thats what I am starting out with on my sled and see how it goes.

 

[justinator]

so do you think you are loosing much top end with that track?i,m looking at getting one

I am sure I am, sled is an xtx se and came with 2" track but it was soft lugged and I hated it so switched to 1.75 hurricane. I like it much better. Left the gearing at 24-50 as it came from factory. Pulls good to about 108 on speedo then acceleration slows down quite a bit. I had it to 112 speedo and seemed to have more but thats all I had room for that day. Ive havent been out since and I have no honest answer for its max but I'm not a big top end guy so I wont be hurt if its not much faster.

 

[number1kyster]

How many grams do our stock weights come in at?

 

[actionjack]

How many grams do our stock weights come in at?

2017 LTX-LE stock weight

 

[justinator]

Please comment if you have on.
I am going to purchase the TD Max spool 16Sm Tune

I plan to leave everything stock except clutch weights ( NO CAI, NO TS BOV, NO 3 Bar )

I realize TD recommends Dalton QAY-70 weighted to 72 grams.
Questions
1.) can stock clutching work with this set-up?
2.) should I start 70 or 72?
3.) I hear RPM drops with XP’s-825 belt would stock weight work using this belt?
4.) will QAY- 70 empty be too heavy for this set-up 8JP- belt
5.) will QAy-70 empty be too heavy for this set-up XX-825 belt.
6.) what springs and wraps do you recommend?

I got to take a short ride with my freshly flashed max 16 tune. If you do not plan to add bigger tune then this or get more extensive mods then I would suggest the qay-66 if you want to use xs825 belt as they are adjustable to 73.4 grams. I started tonight with xs825 belt yamaha 35 degree helix with yamaha yellow spring at 3-3 and dalton bronze primary spring which is close to stock spring with slightly higher finish rate(approx 100 rpm) and dalton qay 66 loaded to 68.5 grams. I will end up fairly close to 70 grams I think as I was overreving a bit but these weights will leave me some adjustability for warm weather riding and poor snow conditions. With stock primary spring Id probably be about .7-1.0 gram lighter .The 70's would be nearly empty or totally empty and wouldnt leave much room for removing weight if needed. With the 66's I can add weight if needed and remove as much as I need. Now I will add I am running 24-50 gearing and a 1.75 track so a sled with taller gearing and a lower lugged track may have a slightly different requirement for weight but it wont need 3.4 grams more. If your going to stay with 8Jp then you'll need to start with qay 70's.

 

[number1kyster]

Good info. I'd be curious to see what kind of RPM you would turn with the stock weights.

 

[Crossfire12]

What Are these clutch setups for ? Hard pack ,loose snow, ice or just general? Just curious.

 

[justinator]

Good info. I'd be curious to see what kind of RPM you would turn with the stock weights.

my sled came with 35-39 helix so the factory weights have a .85gram rivet in tip instead of the 4.5 that was on the earlier sidewinders that came with straight 35 helix so I would have to add weight for sure because I am running the straight 35 now, I find this helix easier to setup with the daltons and with the little bit of riding I have done it seems to be more consistant in different snow conditions . I dont think the stock weights would be heavy enough even if full of 4.5 gram rivets but maybe with some washers added they would be, shouldnt be too far off. If I had to guess with no science behind it Id say stock weights would need to be in the 74-75 gram range. Of course this is all with the ultimax belt, I dont think you could ever get 8JP to work with stock weights. I didnt mind the stock weights with eco trail flash and 35-39 helix but with straight 35 I like the feel of the daltons much more.

 

[justinator]

What Are these clutch setups for ? Hard pack ,loose snow, ice or just general? Just curious.

Just general riding. Im shooting for 9000-9100 on very cold nights with good hardpack like last night. It was -15F. Its a slight overrev but on warmer temps and slightly softer trails Id guess itll be in the 8800-9000 range. Now please keep in mind Im just sharing what I have experienced so far, Im not an expert clutch tuner by any means and I dont care about extracting every last drop out of the sled or big top end. Im just trying to keep it simple and have acceptable belt life with good trail riding characteristics while not being way out to lunch on rpms.

 

[Motorhead]

my sled came with 35-39 helix so the factory weights have a .85gram rivet in tip instead of the 4.5 that was on the earlier sidewinders that came with straight 35 helix so I would have to add weight for sure because I am running the straight 35 now, I find this helix easier to setup with the daltons and with the little bit of riding I have done it seems to be more consistant in different snow conditions . I dont think the stock weights would be heavy enough even if full of 4.5 gram rivets but maybe with some washers added they would be, shouldnt be too far off. If I had to guess with no science behind it Id say stock weights would need to be in the 74-75 gram range. Of course this is all with the ultimax belt, I dont think you could ever get 8JP to work with stock weights. I didnt mind the stock weights with eco trail flash and 35-39 helix but with straight 35 I like the feel of the daltons much more.

FYI
I do use all stock clutch components and belt, but secondary has had the coil pocket machined .070” to prevent coil bind with the long stock secondary spring.
I replaced the stock 35 helix with the Dalton 35/39 after weeks of testing so that coil bind thing is a moot point whereas that Dalton helix is cut for coil bind I believe.

Max Spool 16 / 3 bar with BOV.
Again all stock clutch components except the 35/39
Stock belt
QAY70 loaded to 71.8
Engagement 3200
WOT Shift rpm 8750-8850

Same everything except stock weight with washer added to tip weight for 73.8 grams total.
Engagement 2650
WOT Shift rpm 8950 - 9050. My happy spot rpm wise!

The stock 35 helix is not as smooth and allows for a bit higher WOT shift rpm.

It would be interesting to see where the rpms would be with just the xs825 added with all else stock and the Max Spool 16.

These are my test results. They may be a bit different for another sled but they are very close on another same year RTX-LE. Mine is a 17 LTX-LE.

Dalton’s QAY’s would be much easier with both correct Dalton springs.

Stock weight with added tip weight will require grinding that tip weight a couple of times to get it where you want!

I trail ride/race only, and I find this set up does not vary much once clutches warm up.

 

[justinator]

FYI
I do use all stock clutch components and belt, but secondary has had the coil pocket machined .070” to prevent coil bind with the long stock secondary spring.
I replaced the stock 35 helix with the Dalton 35/39 after weeks of testing so that coil bind thing is a moot point whereas that Dalton helix is cut for coil bind I believe.

Max Spool 16 / 3 bar with BOV.
Again all stock clutch components except the 35/39
Stock belt
QAY70 loaded to 71.8
Engagement 3200
WOT Shift rpm 8750-8850

Same everything except stock weight with washer added to tip weight for 73.8 grams total.
Engagement 2650
WOT Shift rpm 8950 - 9050. My happy spot rpm wise!

The stock 35 helix is not as smooth and allows for a bit higher WOT shift rpm.

It would be interesting to see where the rpms would be with just the xs825 added with all else stock and the Max Spool 16.

These are my test results. They may be a bit different for another sled but they are very close on another same year RTX-LE. Mine is a 17 LTX-LE.

Dalton’s QAY’s would be much easier with both correct Dalton springs.

Stock weight with added tip weight will require grinding that tip weight a couple of times to get it where you want!

I trail ride/race only, and I find this set up does not vary much once clutches warm up.

Hard to say what the ultimax would do to your rpms. It seems the larger tunes see a larger rpm drop with ultimax since its harder to hang onto the 8JP with big power. If your hanging onto it good vs someone strugglin g with belt grip you would both have different results. Some guys had a 500-600 rpm drop. Looking at your setup I would guess if you went back to straight 35 your daltons would be between 73 and 74 grams instead of 71.8. I will be just shy of 70 grams Im estimating with ultimax so safe to say theres probably in the ballpark of 400rpm difference vs 8JP. I think the reason I prefer the straight 35 over the 35-39 is Im a 146 with 1.75 track.

 

[Motorhead]

Hard to say what the ultimax would do to your rpms. It seems the larger tunes see a larger rpm drop with ultimax since its harder to hang onto the 8JP with big power. If your hanging onto it good vs someone strugglin g with belt grip you would both have different results. Some guys had a 500-600 rpm drop. Looking at your setup I would guess if you went back to straight 35 your daltons would be between 73 and 74 grams instead of 71.8. I will be just shy of 70 grams Im estimating with ultimax so safe to say theres probably in the ballpark of 400rpm difference vs 8JP. I think the reason I prefer the straight 35 over the 35-39 is Im a 146 with 1.75 track.

I did try the Daltons with the 35, it gave me a small amount of extra revs on top, about 100 or so. Just did not like the added low and mid range change from the 35. Still at 71.8 grams with the 35.

I started out at around 74 grams and there is no way my sled could pull that kind of weight with the Daltons and all other STOCK clutch components. But I did like the lower engagement with that kind of weight. Once you start taking weight out of the Daltons for higher top end revs, the engagement speed also rises, thus their springs are needed for lower engagement and perfect top end revs.

 

[justinator]

I did try the Daltons with the 35, it gave me a small amount of extra revs on top, about 100 or so. Just did not like the added low and mid range change from the 35. Still at 71.8 grams with the 35.

I started out at around 74 grams and there is no way my sled could pull that kind of weight with the Daltons and all other STOCK clutch components. But I did like the lower engagement with that kind of weight. Once you start taking weight out of the Daltons for higher top end revs, the engagement speed also rises, thus their springs are needed for lower engagement and perfect top end revs.

INteresting, I assumed 8Jp with 35 helix and daltons would be in the 73-74 gram range with max 16. With just sm ecotrail and 35-39 helix I was at 8600-8650 with qay70 empty and stock springs, I figured the extra 30+ hp would need 3-4 grams to harness it but guess not. Goes to show every sled is a little different with what satisfies them. On another note I just got back from a quick 45 miles ride and I added an additional 3/8 set screw to the daltons so Im at 69.8 grams now with dalton bronze, 3-3 yellow spring on rear with 35 helix and Im getting 8950-9050 with ultimax. Cool clutches, stock like cruising rpms and smooth and responsive. Very happy with this tune so far, run quality is great and its docile when needed and wakes up when asked!