Testing Viper clutches on Sidewinder

[PowderFalcon]

Ive got an apex primary and a viper secondary on the shelf..the apex secondary wont work I think without modding

Correct, apex secondary will not work.

 

[Fleecer]

Well did some testing today. This time I tried sidewinder stock factory clutch with the viper secondary TP orange spring set at 60 degrees. (Man this spring is stiff) Riding rr bed in soft snow several checks revealed that clutches were running very hot.....appeared to run hotter than last year when I ran both viper clutches.

When I got home I checked he offset. Bear in mind, both factory sidewinder clutches, offset is at .595. (Spec is .58-.61) Factory sidewinder front clutch and viper rear clutch, offset was at .638. I don't have any shims to remove, hence there is nothing I can do to improve this. I should have checked the offset with the viper primary on before swapping the winder primary back.....could always re-swap and check.

Here are my questions:
1. Does anyone know what the offset spec was for the viper and should I go by viper specs instead of winder specs?
2. Would installing viper primary clutch change the offset or are the clutches pressed on the crankshaft the same depth when torqued?

 

[Doowithblue]

tp orange be better suited to the sidewinder roller secondary with a tune and increased hp imo.

 

[ShootToThrill]

Following. I have a low mile Apex primary under the bench and access to a secondary I can try.

 

[XP123]

tp orange be better suited to the sidewinder roller secondary with a tune and increased hp imo.

I have the big venom kit along with the orange secondary and 33/35 helix on mine. My sled is completely stock and this set up is a blast to ride. It engages around 2800-3000 rpm and the throttle response is fantastic.

I did notice how stiff the orange secondary was when I installed it but it works great in my stock sled. I don't think you need a tune with increased HP to benefit from this spring.

 

[Fleecer]

Well, I did some searching and found the clutch offset specs on a viper to be .51-.63. At .638, I'm not that far out of spec, however with no shims to remove, there is nothing I can do to get it perfect aside from machining the clutch sleeve that slides on the jackshaft.

One of the changes I did this year was remove factory airbox and install a CAI. This left a much nicer path for air to travel and cool the clutches. I also added a TPI orange rear spring. Pulling the belt on/off while installing it, removing clutches to measure etc this thing is stiff. You gotta be Hercules to remove the belt with this thing. I'm wondering at this point if the spring maybe contributing to some of the heat? So.....the testing continues.....

 

[Fleecer]

tp orange be better suited to the sidewinder roller secondary with a tune and increased hp imo.

I should have mentioned...running 270hp. Having a winder without a tune is like hiring a hooker wearing a chastity belt!!! Lol

 

[**sj**]

Correct, apex secondary will not work.

apex primary is pending sale...viper secondary available

 

[stevewithOCD]

I should have mentioned...running 270hp. Having a winder without a tune is like hiring a hooker wearing a chastity belt!!! Lol

I think you just called my sled a whore! And not a good one at that.

A $17,000 whore wearing a chastity belt..............that kinda' stings a little

 

[Shagnos]

I think you just called my sled a whore! And not a good one at that.

A $17,000 whore wearing a chastity belt..............that kinda' stings a little

Bitch slap her with a tune!

 

[NOS-PRO]

Interesting results. I would be willing to bet NOS-PRO has tested Viper clutches on his sidewinder as well. I would think if he found a major improvement with them, he would've posted it somewhere on TY as well. I could be wrong. Hopefully, he'll chime in.

Great write up Fleecer!

I have installed the Viper clutches on my winder and ran Thunder Products kits in both clutches. Results were the same pretty much, but I didn't put on as many miles as was mentioned.

Taking a stock clutched Winder primary and switching to a Viper clutch with different weights will be better than the stock winder clutching anyday.

Now, the reason I tried the Viper clutches was because issues with the flat spots on the rollers, the replacements were on back order and the the Viper guys were wondering if the clutches from a winder would fit the Viper.

As many of you know, I do a lot of clutching to make my sleds and everyone elses sled perform well, get great fuel economy and make belts last. My winder has blown 3 belts to date....1 was stock clutching at 50 miles, 2nd was testing clutching and ran 130GPS - 135mph speedo before the belt climbed over the inner primary sheave, cutting the belt like a knife. (It was cut by the primary sheave when it pinched itself between the sheave and the engine). Last belt to blow was back to back runs south of the Buckhorn. Belt pcs. were too hot to even touch.

So, conclusion.....stock clutching belt blows have happened more often than clutched winders....Just my observation

 

[Big_Phil]

I bought a demo Sidewinder this season. It had 2100 kms on it and was one of Yamahas corporate demo sled. The sled had some remnants of blown belts. How many belts, who knows.

I noticed this when I picked the sled up, and I asked the dealership to clean the clutches, and inspect them for any issues because i didnt want a belt blowing POS.

When I installed my clutch weights, I noticed 2 of the primary bushings didnt roll properly. I took them off and discovered the bushings werent pressed into the roller enough, causing the busing to drag on the washers, making the roller hard to spin. This sled must have been like this from the factory, and could be why it was blowing belts. The secondary rollers were also slightly flatspotted. You couldnt tell they were flatspotted unless you took the helix off.

Theres seems to be a lot of small assembly issues with these sleds. The rollers not being proper on my clutch, boost and bov lines not routed correctly, loose clamps, etc

 

[Pstn head]

I bought a demo Sidewinder this season. It had 2100 kms on it and was one of Yamahas corporate demo sled. The sled had some remnants of blown belts. How many belts, who knows.

I noticed this when I picked the sled up, and I asked the dealership to clean the clutches, and inspect them for any issues because i didnt want a belt blowing POS.

When I installed my clutch weights, I noticed 2 of the primary bushings didnt roll properly. I took them off and discovered the bushings werent pressed into the roller enough, causing the busing to drag on the washers, making the roller hard to spin. This sled must have been like this from the factory, and could be why it was blowing belts. The secondary rollers were also slightly flatspotted. You couldnt tell they were flatspotted unless you took the helix off.

Theres seems to be a lot of small assembly issues with these sleds. The rollers not being proper on my clutch, boost and bov lines not routed correctly, loose clamps, etc

The primary rollers being made for the Sidewinder for some reason a few have the bushing not pressed in tight enough or something, not sure why but I've replaced two. The secondary rollers, Yamaha has updated ones and possibly your sled being a 17 (I'm assuming it's a 17) still have the first type of rollers in it. Some of us have been using Hi Torque rollers sold by vendors on this site like TD, Hurricane etc. Not sure how the updated Yamaha rollers are holding up yet, with some miles I'm sure we'll hear if there better or not.

 

[Big_Phil]

The primary rollers being made for the Sidewinder for some reason a few have the bushing not pressed in tight enough or something, not sure why but I've replaced two. The secondary rollers, Yamaha has updated ones and possibly your sled being a 17 (I'm assuming it's a 17) still have the first type of rollers in it. Some of us have been using Hi Torque rollers sold by vendors on this site like TD, Hurricane etc. Not sure how the updated Yamaha rollers are holding up yet, with some miles I'm sure we'll hear if there better or not.

Ya they could have been the old rollers, I picked up a set of the thunder products rollers actually. Hopefully the hold up for me.

Im meticulous with my stuff, so I noticed the primary rollers and other stuff like that. If I was just an average Joe, and never checked these things, I could have been blowing belts every 500kms. You know how the stealership is, they probably would have blamed the belts on my driving or something, saying they never heard of a sidewinder that blows belts. lol

 

[raptordan]

I also bought a demo with 1000k
No evidence of blown belts but I also had a primary roller that the bushing wasn't pressed in entirely causing it not to roll freely.