Thunder Products Orange Secondary spring **Update**

[ClutchMaster]

Just received a pm from a member here and he tried 3-0 twist and had cool clutches, went 123mph gps with 8JP on a snow covered river....whereas the 2-3 twist, the clutches were a lot warmer and mph slowed to 117mph gps with both the 8JP and 8DN.

This is good because we still have room to play with percentage twisting.

I have a hard time believing the 8dn ran at the same temperature as the 8jp. 8dn runs a couple mph slower than the 8jp due to its longer length.

 

[dem1000]

I think that when I drive slowly and hit the gas and the boost increases, the secondary does not shift fast enough due to strong spring or too little angle on the helix. Then it pulls the belt straight off. It happened to me both on hard trail and in deep snow.

 

[NOS-PRO]

I have a hard time believing the 8dn ran at the same temperature as the 8jp. 8dn runs a couple mph slower than the 8jp due to its longer length.

Just reporting what was messaged to me

Like Johnny 5 from short circuit said... "Need more input!!!"

 

[shagman]

So with all this clutching talk, 3-1, 1-6, 2-3, 3-2. Which # applies to which component ? I know one is the helix and the other is the clutch itself. But is the first # listed ALWAYS for the clutch,or the helix ? Granted when dealing with a 6, its only on one component, but depending on who inserted the #s, as in 2-3 it could go either way. This might be causing some of the clutching problems. Consistant posting of spring wrap #s will help.

The helix only has 0,3,6,9 for numbers. Secondary has 1,2,3.
This combo of numbers makes spring wrap from 10-120 degrees. You add the numbers together. Can only go one way for each setting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ClutchMaster]

0-3-6-9 on the helix
1-2-3 on the clutch
Really don’t matter what order the numbers are in.
For instance 2-3 or 3-2 you can’t mess it up

 

[NOS-PRO]

So with all this clutching talk, 3-1, 1-6, 2-3, 3-2. Which # applies to which component ? I know one is the helix and the other is the clutch itself. But is the first # listed ALWAYS for the clutch,or the helix ? Granted when dealing with a 6, its only on one component, but depending on who inserted the #s, as in 2-3 it could go either way. This might be causing some of the clutching problems. Consistant posting of spring wrap #s will help.

On the clutch, there is only spring pocket 1,2,3
On the helix, there is spring holes 0,3,6,9

When installing the spring, if someone says 3-3, those are the only numbers that you could take backwards, but will still install the same. if someone says 0-3 or 3-0, there is still only 1 way to install the spring into the clutch and helix. Yamaha did that correct. Just make sure to wrap the secondary spring clockwise to the 1st set of holes where the bolts go thru the mounting holes of the helix.

 

[swampcat]

On the clutch, there is only spring pocket 1,2,3
On the helix, there is spring holes 0,3,6,9

When installing the spring, if someone says 3-3, those are the only numbers that you could take backwards, but will still install the same. if someone says 0-3 or 3-0, there is still only 1 way to install the spring into the clutch and helix. Yamaha did that correct. Just make sure to wrap the secondary spring clockwise to the 1st set of holes where the bolts go thru the mounting holes of the helix.

Thanks for the clarity on this.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Just reporting what was messaged to me

Like Johnny 5 from short circuit said... "Need more input!!!"

Oh it’s all good!
This actually proves what I’ve been saying about the belt not slipping. It proves that the 8jp is being over clamped causing it to wedge/stick in the sheave, causing heat when it tries to release itself from the sheave. Actually the lighter spring setting clamps the belt less which prevents it from getting stuck.
something most yamaha guys are not used to dealing with due to the 8dn’s harder compound.

 

[ClutchMaster]

If I had a winder to mess with it would make life a lot easier. I know the helix is a larger diameter which produces less side force than the old yami secondary, but I never really took into consideration that the shallower angle requires the spring to twist a lot more to reach full shift out. Technically the 35 degree helix will produce about the same side force as a 42 degree on the old secondarys due to its larger diameter. But the spring still has to twist a lot more degrees to reach full shift. Food for thought.

 

[**sj**]

If I had a winder to mess with it would make life a lot easier. I know the helix is a larger diameter which produces less side force than the old yami secondary, but I never really took into consideration that the shallower angle requires the spring to twist a lot more to reach full shift out. Technically the 35 degree helix will produce about the same side force as a 42 degree on the old secondarys due to its larger diameter. But the spring still has to twist a lot more degrees to reach full shift. Food for thought.

this is gold...in fact i was thinking the same about the larger helix and less side force as I looked side by side with a viper secondary i have...started thinking of the old heelclicker heel x with the wide helix that moved inward ..

as to the bold...if the spring has longer travel...depending on the coils it would be easier for it to bind no?

 

[johan]

I'm running the orange spring in my viper 270 with a roller converted secondary with straight 40 with 3+3 wrap and it works really good with good clutch temps and I'm running 8dn on it

I know that this isn't a sidewinder but I am putting over 270hp to the ground and it isn't twisting the spring as much as the winder do with full shift out.

 

[NOS-PRO]

I'm running the orange spring in my viper 270 with a roller converted secondary with straight 40 with 3+3 wrap and it works really good with good clutch temps and I'm running 8dn on it

I know that this isn't a sidewinder but I am putting over 270hp to the ground and it isn't twisting the spring as much as the winder do with full shift out.

Johan is putting serious power to the ground with his turbo Viper with running the TP orange spring and Thunder Products weights. Look up his video cat-walking/tail-dragging across snow covered fields.

 

[snowbeast]

I have a hard time believing the 8dn ran at the same temperature as the 8jp. 8dn runs a couple mph slower than the 8jp due to its longer length.

4 mph on my sled,same day and lake 30 min. apart,8jp faster,and 8dn only showed 100 rpm more,and belt brand new with 130 miles on it.

 

[ClutchMaster]

4 mph on my sled,same day and lake 30 min. apart,8jp faster,and 8dn only showed 100 rpm more,and belt brand new with 130 miles on it.

Thank you for the feedback guys!
Sweet vid Johan!

 

[snowbeast]

Thank you for the feedback guys!
Sweet vid Johan!

Do you think his hp was a typo 270 to track,so he is 500 plus at crank?