Clutching/orange Thunder secondary spring/straight 38 helix

[jonlafon1]

Managed 502 miles on the 17 winder this year. I did try the orange thunder products SECONDARY clutch spring. I thought it was okay at best for my application.. I run a straight 38 helix and found the spring to be to STIFF and caused to much back shift IMO.. NOW this spring probably works great with the thunder helix (less angle)but for my set up it was to stiff. It also raised my RPM a touch on the punch. I ran it at 3/3 with a 8dn belt from last year.. this belt now has 1700 miles on it and looks VERY good..
I went back to the stocker secondary spring at 3/3.. My secondary does have the spring pocket machined out a touch.

 

[snowbeast]

Managed 502 miles on the 17 winder this year. I did try the orange thunder products SECONDARY clutch spring. I thought it was okay at best for my application.. I run a straight 38 helix and found the spring to be to STIFF and caused to much back shift IMO.. NOW this spring probably works great with the thunder helix (less angle)but for my set up it was to stiff. It also raised my RPM a touch on the punch. I ran it at 3/3 with a 8dn belt from last year.. this belt now has 1700 miles on it and looks VERY good..
I went back to the stocker secondary spring at 3/3.. My secondary does have the spring pocket machined out a touch.

OK I am in the same spot as you,and tomorrow I put my stock sw pink secondary spring at 60 degrees with my stm 38 shimmed helix and my soft pink primary ulmer sent me last year,to try and get my upshift where it belongs,and my rpms in the 8900-9000 area.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I now have 550 miles on mine. Im bone stock still(engine) and only started to clutch on secondary. I got 150 miles on a Orange TP sec spring set at 3/3, OSP rollers, Dalton 33/35 helix. I notice abit more snap on bottom, and the rpms seem to hold nicely on top end around 8750. It does hold up rpms on the super tight trails slower speeds which I love, helping with snap. Engine is still breaking in and getting faster on top, so I dont notice any less MPH really from stock sec setup.

I was hoping for much more engine braking with this secondary setup, it does have more braking down very low speeds, but on our wide open higher speeds trails, i find myself using brake lever constantly and this drives me nuts, as I rarely ever use brakes as Ive been able to set all my sleds up with lots of engine braking, but this one with a ton of backpressure on secondary has very little. I can only attribute this to the built in Engine Braking Reduction System(EBRS) that Yam has built into the ECU program.

Id love to hear from the clutching gurus, and also the Tuners........

To the Clutching gurus......When I dive into my primary, will my STM weights in the primary help with more braking? So do the stock weights have anything to do with engine braking? I don't think they do as YAM used to have tons of braking with stock flat profile weights, but wanted to be sure.

To the tuners....can't you guys find this EBRS in the tune/map, and remove it altogether? I believe YAM uses a system where it keeps a slight amt of throttle on(when chopped by rider) to allow engine to roll fully still. Id love to remove it!

thanks
Dan

 

[XP123]

I now have 550 miles on mine. Im bone stock still(engine) and only started to clutch on secondary. I got 150 miles on a Orange TP sec spring set at 3/3, OSP rollers, Dalton 33/35 helix. I notice abit more snap on bottom, and the rpms seem to hold nicely on top end around 8750. It does hold up rpms on the super tight trails slower speeds which I love, helping with snap. Engine is still breaking in and getting faster on top, so I dont notice any less MPH really from stock sec setup.

I was hoping for much more engine braking with this secondary setup, it does have more braking down very low speeds, but on our wide open higher speeds trails, i find myself using brake lever constantly and this drives me nuts, as I rarely ever use brakes as Ive been able to set all my sleds up with lots of engine braking, but this one with a ton of backpressure on secondary has very little. I can only attribute this to the built in Engine Braking Reduction System(EBRS) that Yam has built into the ECU program.

Id love to hear from the clutching gurus, and also the Tuners........

To the Clutching gurus......When I dive into my primary, will my STM weights in the primary help with more braking? So do the stock weights have anything to do with engine braking? I don't think they do as YAM used to have tons of braking with stock flat profile weights, but wanted to be sure.

To the tuners....can't you guys find this EBRS in the tune/map, and remove it altogether? I believe YAM uses a system where it keeps a slight amt of throttle on(when chopped by rider) to allow engine to roll fully still. Id love to remove it!

thanks
Dan

The secondary spring does add a lot of EB on my sled but maybe the Big Venom primary kit also helps? I do however notice the RPM's hold when you let off the throttle. Sometimes when I come to a stop it will be idling 2200-2300 rpm's for a second or two before dropping down. I think this is what you are referring to in the EBRS that Yamaha has built into the ECU.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

The secondary spring does add a lot of EB on my sled but maybe the Big Venom primary kit also helps? I do however notice the RPM's hold when you let off the throttle. Sometimes when I come to a stop it will be idling 2200-2300 rpm's for a second or two before dropping down. I think this is what you are referring to in the EBRS that Yamaha has built into the ECU.

Thx Joe.....I really am hoping my STMs will add more EB but typically Ive gotten it with more backpressure.

On the tight trails the more the better. I have never used brakes so much, and that extra step does not allow for my riding style corner to corner. Grrrr

Will see how things go....as I dive into more perf mods now.

Dan

 

[Big_Phil]

I now have 550 miles on mine. Im bone stock still(engine) and only started to clutch on secondary. I got 150 miles on a Orange TP sec spring set at 3/3, OSP rollers, Dalton 33/35 helix. I notice abit more snap on bottom, and the rpms seem to hold nicely on top end around 8750. It does hold up rpms on the super tight trails slower speeds which I love, helping with snap. Engine is still breaking in and getting faster on top, so I dont notice any less MPH really from stock sec setup.

I was hoping for much more engine braking with this secondary setup, it does have more braking down very low speeds, but on our wide open higher speeds trails, i find myself using brake lever constantly and this drives me nuts, as I rarely ever use brakes as Ive been able to set all my sleds up with lots of engine braking, but this one with a ton of backpressure on secondary has very little. I can only attribute this to the built in Engine Braking Reduction System(EBRS) that Yam has built into the ECU program.

Id love to hear from the clutching gurus, and also the Tuners........

To the Clutching gurus......When I dive into my primary, will my STM weights in the primary help with more braking? So do the stock weights have anything to do with engine braking? I don't think they do as YAM used to have tons of braking with stock flat profile weights, but wanted to be sure.

To the tuners....can't you guys find this EBRS in the tune/map, and remove it altogether? I believe YAM uses a system where it keeps a slight amt of throttle on(when chopped by rider) to allow engine to roll fully still. Id love to remove it!

thanks
Dan

No more engine braking with the STM weights. The STMS look very close in shape and curve to the stock weights actually. I actually like the way these sleds coast, but Ive also been riding a Nytro for the past 5-6 years, so I might just be used to it.

Maybe ask one of the tuners if they can increase the engine braking for you. The ECU actually opens up the IAC valve when you let go of the gas at speed, works as an air bypass when the throttle blades are closed.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

No more engine braking with the STM weights. The STMS look very close in shape and curve to the stock weights actually. I actually like the way these sleds coast, but Ive also been riding a Nytro for the past 5-6 years, so I might just be used to it.

Maybe ask one of the tuners if they can increase the engine braking for you. The ECU actually opens up the IAC valve when you let go of the gas at speed, works as an air bypass when the throttle blades are closed.

Yeah I knew that YAM added this EBRS a few seasons back, and I loved it on my apex.....After all those yrs on 2 strokes and using brakes, owning the apex for so long I could ride it way faster, never needed to grab a brake lever corner to corner makes for much faster riding. Id love if they could eliminate this....even the modern 2s now have more EB then this winder does.

Dan

 

[jonlafon1]

More helix angle and the Orange thunder secondary spring and you will damn near go over the bars if you completely let off throttle. I found myself having to almost ease off the flipper as It would back shift like crazy. Conditions surely played into this some also as the base was thin. In five hundred miles(ONLY thing different then my end of year set up was Thunder orange secondary spring) I might have used the brake 3 times.
Sitting at 3100 at this point
Not sure the weights are the factor.. I run the thunder weights, and eco trail tune.

 

[**sj**]

Try less wrap?

 

[jonlafon1]

I ran it @ 3/3 that was it. Back to stocker for next trip Going to try one other secondary spring. Dalton DPSS-YBO. Which is suppose to be close to stock but a touch more side force out of the hole

 

[budman 1000]

I now have 550 miles on mine. Im bone stock still(engine) and only started to clutch on secondary. I got 150 miles on a Orange TP sec spring set at 3/3, OSP rollers, Dalton 33/35 helix. I notice abit more snap on bottom, and the rpms seem to hold nicely on top end around 8750. It does hold up rpms on the super tight trails slower speeds which I love, helping with snap. Engine is still breaking in and getting faster on top, so I dont notice any less MPH really from stock sec setup.

I was hoping for much more engine braking with this secondary setup, it does have more braking down very low speeds, but on our wide open higher speeds trails, i find myself using brake lever constantly and this drives me nuts, as I rarely ever use brakes as Ive been able to set all my sleds up with lots of engine braking, but this one with a ton of backpressure on secondary has very little. I can only attribute this to the built in Engine Braking Reduction System(EBRS) that Yam has built into the ECU program.

Id love to hear from the clutching gurus, and also the Tuners........

To the Clutching gurus......When I dive into my primary, will my STM weights in the primary help with more braking? So do the stock weights have anything to do with engine braking? I don't think they do as YAM used to have tons of braking with stock flat profile weights, but wanted to be sure.

To the tuners....can't you guys find this EBRS in the tune/map, and remove it altogether? I believe YAM uses a system where it keeps a slight amt of throttle on(when chopped by rider) to allow engine to roll fully still. Id love to remove it!

thanks
Dan

I switched back and forth a couple times with my STM ‘S and stock weights, my stock weights have engine braking and my STM’s no engine braking. This is with stock helix and spring. If I recall some talk in the threads last year it seemed like the engine braking wasn’t consistent from sled to sled, so it may be something in the programming that could be tweaked possibly?

 

[WinterWolf]

I ran it @ 3/3 that was it. Back to stocker for next trip Going to try one other secondary spring. Dalton DPSS-YBO. Which is suppose to be close to stock but a touch more side force out of the hole

I’m running that Dalton Secondary spring(black orange), along with Dalton’s Reverse 33/35 Helix and TD Heavy Duty Rollers on my new 18 RTX. Put on 417 miles a week ago in N. Maine and it seemed smooth as silk. The engine breaking didn’t seem too much different to me than my 07 Apex was...but maybe it’s just me.

 

[**sj**]

Stms and heavy hitters have a rounded profile... Stock and Dalton's have a flatter profile..

 

[Lusemeat924]

I’m running that Dalton Secondary spring(black orange), along with Dalton’s Reverse 33/35 Helix and TD Heavy Duty Rollers on my new 18 RTX. Put on 417 miles a week ago in N. Maine and it seemed smooth as silk. The engine breaking didn’t seem too much different to me than my 07 Apex was...but maybe it’s just me.

What primary weights are you running with your set up?

 

[WinterWolf]

What primary weights are you running with your set up?

Stock primary set up. Just changed up the secondary. So far I’m very happy... like I said very smooth and silky feel. Great out of the hole performance..in fact better than I expected.