Getting rid of the roll over valve

[MrSled]

That is true. But the hose has potential to dump the oil running or not. And once again I'm not taking away from the idea. I like it, it's simple and effective for the right person. But I've seen too many people over the years here do things suggested in threads that are not right for them and have catastrophic consequences. I will always point out the downside to everything so people can make informed decisions. Even on things I like and do myself, like the #*$&@ welds on my new muffler that I just took out of the box.

I agree but the voices of reason have been posted now we sit back and watch it unfold. Warned but some will look past it and make the catastrophic error anyway.

 

[XP123]

That is true. But the hose has potential to dump the oil running or not. And once again I'm not taking away from the idea. I like it, it's simple and effective for the right person. But I've seen too many people over the years here do things suggested in threads that are not right for them and have catastrophic consequences. I will always point out the downside to everything so people can make informed decisions. Even on things I like and do myself, like the #*$&@ welds on my new muffler that I just took out of the box.

I think what really needs to be done here is Yamaha needs to come out with a true rollover valve that protects our sled from a rollover. Also it needs to be of a design that doesn't freeze and blow out the seals in our oil tanks. I'm not going to do anything at this time until I see what the recall on the oil tank is from Yamaha. When and if I do decide to mod mine I will do it the way Rockerdan did his but I will install the T a little higher.

 

[XP123]

I agree but the voices of reason have been posted now we sit back and watch it unfold. Warned but some will look past it and make the catastrophic error anyway.

I agree also and I'm usually the last guy to jump on so called fixes posted on the internet. I also agree that those who feel the need to make this modification should also understand that they need to be extra careful and the liability for such a modification falls squarely on themselves.

 

[KnappAttack]

There is no PERFECT solution for everyone in regards to this.

One guy won't or doesn't wear his tether and that does nothing to shut down the electric valve. I'm one of them who never wears a tether.

One guy installs the Rotax 1200 rollover valve and the engine stays running and may well take out the bearings out of the crank not getting oil and may still blow the seal out, as the Rotax valve WILL shut off flow to the hose running or not, but he's stupid enough to leave it run on it's side or upside down.

I'm not telling anyone to to this mod, I'm just showing what I have done to every one of my turbo 1200 Ski-Doos and my Yamaha SideWinder to prevent problems. I have only ever rolled a sled two times in my life, and the last was exactly 29 years ago in 1989. This works for me, it obviously won't work for everyone, especially the careless or uncoordinated ones who can't keep it track side down. I wouldn't think people are too careless with their SideWinders as most I believe to be mature enough to own one in the first place, but accidents do happen so the risk is on the owner.

I've made it known that oil may run out doing this mod if your on your side or upside down. The same can be said for the stock valve however if the engine is running and going right thru the stock valve. Oil will run out the same way with what Dan has done, it will act no different in a rollover than what I have done. If an escape is open, the oil can get out, plain and simple.

I'm doing this because every SideWinder Or Cat 9000 I've had in the shop has shown oil leaking past the tank seal thus far, some worse than others, some just starting to leak. It's quite obvious the valve takes pressure to open even brand new, let alone gummed up or froze shut, and this is what is blowing the seal out.

If you feel the risk it to great for you with a roll over, I would not suggest doing what I did here. If all you do is take you're sled out of a heated garage every night, I wouldn't be doing this. I did this because when I go on a trip my machine sits outside at night and sits in the cold and I didn't want the risk of valve gum up and freeze up, and well I also did it because I didn't want the oil mist in the intake and intercooler.

Cat sent out tens of thousands of four-strokes out prior to this 2017 model, (I know the Suzuki engines never had a roll over valve ever) without a rollover valve and Cat must not have been too concerned with it, so I know I'm not the only one that feels the risk is not that great. Decide for yourself if its too great a risk that you will roll your's over and loose oil. Or if you'll loose the seal and loose all the oil without knowing.

For me the choice was simple. I'd rather know I had to add oil after a roll over, than not knowing the seal had been compromised and had the oil leak out without knowing while riding and ruining a trip. If I roll it over, I'll probably have more worries than the oil that may run out of it anyway.

 

[**sj**]

Unless the sled is on it's side not upside down

hmmm bet a full loop before going down would prevent that

 

[MrSled]

hmmm bet a full loop before going down would prevent that

Why dont you give that a test and report back when you sled is on its side?

 

[BlueByYou2000]

I agree with dan..

-10 f in the U.P. last couple days...any moisture inside thew valve will freeze ....insulation only would help retain heat if it remained present...

Not sure about this. No one has talked about the vent In The hood directly above this area that is constantly dumping fresh cold air directly on this valve and hose. Maybe an accessory adjustable louvre closure would work to block this hood opening for colder temps. Insulation certainly would help. Would it fix the issue is another question. But to be sure it only makes sense that the internal temperature of anything that's insulated would be warmer than something that's not insulated.

 

[Jamie Gelting]

"Disclaimer" This is not an attack or a defense of anyone involved with this thread....Just an observation.

I don't post much as you can see by how long I have been a member and my unimpressive post number. I have followed this thread for a while and read quite a few Sidewinder problem and solution threads now. Why this one has gotten so much attention is really beyond me, Mike just posted a fix that HE did to HIS sled and posted it as a potential solution for those who MAY want to use it OR NOT... For some it will be a solution, for others it will be a problem all depending on the riding style and risk you want to take. If the rewards out-way the risks for your riding style then do it. Does every thread with a sled modification now need a disclaimer at the beginning?? We are all adults and we have to take responsibility for our own actions, if you do it and you roll it and oil dumps out then "own" it, it was your choice. To say one is right and one is wrong for pages is not very helpful. Make a simple plus and minus sheet for yourself then decide. Or if you did it and rolled, let us know what happened. If you have something to add to improve on this idea, post it. Maybe then we can all be better educated with real world results instead of a bunch of unproven "what ifs"
Race car fuel cells use a simple rollover ball valve then a minimum of one loop in the hose before routing out of the chassis .....Could something that simple work...? What do other manufacturers do within this industry or better yet what other industry has a solution that may make ours better...? Who knows, if you want to take the risk try it and see. This is the type of posts that would help possibly improve the quality of this thread.

There are a ton of mods that are out there that will work for some and not for others Incl, tunes, bushings, idlers, skis, wearbars and the list well can go on for awhile.

This thread is being treated like we are being asked to take off our helmet and run our sled into a tree or off a cliff or something.

Me personally I mess with everything and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't... But it is my choice and I will own it of I wreck it, and ALL of us should look at it that way BEFORE we do anything to our sleds or anything for that matter.

I personally will try it and probably do a double loop along with looking into some sort of mechanical roll over valve and see what Yamaha has for a fix in the future. I enjoy trying to eliminate a potential problem before it becomes a real problem...( even if it is not a problem it is for my "peace of mind" which is a battle in its own right! LOL)

Thanks for reading, hopefully it makes some sort of sense,

Jamie

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I'm thinking I may go up just a little higher than you did Dan with the T. I figure the higher the better if you happen to tip the sled on it's side.

Sure can..I played with diff locations, the tube has a nice straight spot there.

Now the next thing to consider is the heat up higher, and also of you are higher the loop can pinch easier as its making a U turn more then a 90 angle. All things I did when mocking up.

Also, I did alot of checking when side panel closes....so this becomes the main issue, as the elbow cannot point outward much at all or side panel wont close, also be sure the side panel does not push inward on hose too much pushing it closer to heat shield...take your time and mockup and it all fits nicely.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Unless the sled is on it's side not upside down

I agree 100%, most times a rollover is more like a "on its side deal" and in many cases oil will come out this hose. I am aware of this fully.

Guys need to understand this....its all at your own risk.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

My ROV stuck NOT from water, but just gummed up.
I noticed over summer a couple of drops of oil on ground. A couple more rides & i might have been in trouble.
I researched cleaning the ROV valve. When i first blew in it.....nothing. I'm sure a cheap whore could have blew it free, but i had to use the compressor.
I also do NOT like oil in my intake so i plan on using KNAPP's method until a better solution comes along.

Agree Steve.

I am betting their may be MORE 17 guys having this happen from a gummed up valve then a freezing valve. But there is one or two 18 that have already pushed oil(that I know of) out the tank seal, and who knows how many others we have not heard about. 18s would likely be from freezing IMO.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Dan, this post explains why you don't want to do that

Getting rid of the roll over valve

In my design all else is stock, so this does not apply to my question to Knapp. I know we are being specific here, but we gotta be careful as Knapp and I have done slightly diff variations.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Agree we dont want to push mods as a one size fits all....TY4s has a reputation that we need to keep in tact for good solid info, and not the FB crap that can be completely wrong in so many cases.

I think at this point anyone considering this is fully aware that Knapp or I are NOT saying this is something we all need to do. Pilot 6.9s YES, this mod NOT for everyone...lol

As I said a few times, lets hope Yam brings the solution soon so we can all apply that solution and I will be the first to do it. I just want to ride today, its minus 30 and barely climbing.....I had a ton of ice in my hose and it was 10 degrees warmer last time I rode, so this pressure very well could have left me stranded and who knows? A breakdown today could be life threatening. I wanted to do all I could to avoid that. And for using a few simple parts I had laying around, I was surely gonna do my thing like I always do.

Maybe Yamaha will actually do something without a years wait this time? It would be nice to know if this company is even alive out there...they sure seem to avoid belt issues like the plague.....sometimes I wonder!

Dan

 

[KnappAttack]

hmmm bet a full loop before going down would prevent that

A full loop of hose will also fill up with water and freeze SJ. There is a lot of water vapor and condensation that comes out of this hose.

DO NOT, repeat , DO NOT TRY AND RUN A FULL LOOP OF HOSE AS IT WILL FREEZE SOLID OVERNIGHT WITH WATER AND BE ICE IN THE AM.

 

[jonlafon1]

I can only say "I told you so" As i figured this roll over junk valve would fail tons in colder weather. I have not run mine for 2000 miles..
Great post KnappAttack!
Some may remember my post from last year > oil leaking on my right foot!
You guys have gone a step further then my original fix.. Great post guys