I need help SW down again losing coolant 550 miles - *FIXED* fingers crossed

[kinger]

Any updates ? Have you got the engine sealed up yet ?

Yes just got a call, its been heat cycled 5 times, pressure tested the coolant and nothing moved. The head and block were both flat and required no machining. They went back to stock head bolts as Yamaha wanted pictures. Yammie also covered a new intercooler as it had sludge in it. Going to pick it up head north till I hit snow and pound on it and see if she holds together, I want at least one successful run before parking it for summer and selling it.

 

[STAIN]

Going to pick it up head north till I hit snow and pound on it and see if she holds together, I want at least one successful run before parking it for summer and selling it

Seems as that sled has left a bad taste in your mouth for sure. I have been there. Best to start fresh. The trust is gone.
To be fair, it seems like the 2nd half of your problems were NOT the fault of Yamaha but installation error..

 

[kinger]

Seems as that sled has left a bad taste in your mouth for sure. I have been there. Best to start fresh. The trust is gone.
To be fair, it seems like the 2nd half of your problems were NOT the fault of Yamaha but installation error..

I hate it yes. I still think the gofundme and doze it would be gobs of fun. I just want it to be running well before selling, hopefully I worked out all the bugs and I can sell it in confidence it just needs the normal cat chassis repairs/maint but the engine is solid. If it doesn't sell I'm stuck with it BUT I will build another apex and bring it (SW) has a spare. So I may no be abandoning it as I refuse to take a bath on it and it has a 4 yr YES, so with the apex in hand I won't be ruining trips and I wont care if its at the dealer for months.

Yamaha has been great on covering it, thankfully. Just disappointed with the down time and overall frustration of ruined trips when I'm traveling a bare min of 5+ hours to get to snow.

 

[STAIN]

Do you hate it because of the problems or the design in general?
The point I am making, without trying to be a dink, is that ALL the problems were not the fault of the manufacture. The dealership/owner has to take responsibility for some of your issues. You are probably fortunate Yamaha did anything for the second repair.

 

[cannondale27]

Kinger Your old Apex was probably the coolest looking bad #*$&@ Apex I have ever seen but it was nothing till YOU made it that way. Do up a Sidewinder yourself. It will be better than anything the factory ever did. Key is you need to do it. EVERYTHING.

 

[Turboflash]

Yes just got a call, its been heat cycled 5 times, pressure tested the coolant and nothing moved. The head and block were both flat and required no machining. They went back to stock head bolts as Yamaha wanted pictures. Yammie also covered a new intercooler as it had sludge in it. Going to pick it up head north till I hit snow and pound on it and see if she holds together, I want at least one successful run before parking it for summer and selling it.

Glad to hear you will at least get to ride it before selling it. So, the 2nd rebuild cycle was all assembly/workmanship errors. Wow, that's too bad. They must not have tightened the head bolts (or studs)!

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

We wouldn’t be having this conversation at all if stupid Yamaha would have just given him a new long block instead of bench building the complete motor! Such stupidity for what?

 

[hibshman25]

We wouldn’t be having this conversation at all if stupid Yamaha would have just given him a new long block instead of bench building the complete motor! Such stupidity for what?

I agree...man hours into fixing the 4 stroke motors is a risky venture. Initially on paper it may look better. Most dealers really don't have mechanics that should be doing this work. Even if they do have mechanic capable, there is still always the chance of human error. It happens to the best of us. I sell many engines to guys doing aircraft builds and follow pages, and I just cringe when they talk of tearing down the motors for a complete rebuild and they don't even have 10k miles on them. I am capable of rebuilding a motor, but would I opt for that over one assembled at factory....no!

 

[Teamblue4]

Yes just got a call, its been heat cycled 5 times, pressure tested the coolant and nothing moved. The head and block were both flat and required no machining. They went back to stock head bolts as Yamaha wanted pictures. Yammie also covered a new intercooler as it had sludge in it. Going to pick it up head north till I hit snow and pound on it and see if she holds together, I want at least one successful run before parking it for summer and selling it.

Good luck on the sale, I've had mine for sale since the first time I rode it, been at the dealer 3 times for breakdowns. All the buyers want it for nothing!

 

[STAIN]

We wouldn’t be having this conversation at all if stupid Yamaha would have just given him a new long block instead of bench building the complete motor! Such stupidity for what?

I have to disagree wholeheartedly here. Working in a dealership myself this is no excuse for poor work

 

[hibshman25]

I hate it yes. I still think the gofundme and doze it would be gobs of fun. I just want it to be running well before selling, hopefully I worked out all the bugs and I can sell it in confidence it just needs the normal cat chassis repairs/maint but the engine is solid. If it doesn't sell I'm stuck with it BUT I will build another apex and bring it (SW) has a spare. So I may no be abandoning it as I refuse to take a bath on it and it has a 4 yr YES, so with the apex in hand I won't be ruining trips and I wont care if its at the dealer for months.

Yamaha has been great on covering it, thankfully. Just disappointed with the down time and overall frustration of ruined trips when I'm traveling a bare min of 5+ hours to get to snow.

You certainly have a sour taste and I can't blame you. I am almost certain if that sidewinder starts to runs well, you will find that the apex becomes the spare. I always have a trusty old japan sled in the trailer on all my trips in the event of a yamacat let down. If you block out the nervousness of reliability, the Winders are phenominal when running. There is no comparison in ride and handling compared to old Japan models. Some will claim that the japan models will handle just as good, but that's like saying a conventional cathode ray TV has the same picture quality as an LCD flat screen! Ha. Now if you can craft the procross front end on your apex like you talked to me about, you may have apex that is an exception!

 

[sideshowBob]

Going to pick it up head north till I hit snow and pound on it and see if she holds together, I want at least one successful run before parking it for summer and selling it.

Careful...once you ride your Winder you may really like it and your Apex will be become a distant memory and a dusty spare.

 

[Turboflash]

I agree...man hours into fixing the 4 stroke motors is a risky venture. Initially on paper it may look better. Most dealers really don't have mechanics that should be doing this work. Even if they do have mechanic capable, there is still always the chance of human error. It happens to the best of us. I sell many engines to guys doing aircraft builds and follow pages, and I just cringe when they talk of tearing down the motors for a complete rebuild and they don't even have 10k miles on them. I am capable of rebuilding a motor, but would I opt for that over one assembled at factory....no!

Agree completely. SOME dealers might have techs capable of doing complete engine disassembly/inspection/re-build but in my experiences, not very many. For example, in my most recent experience in 2018, the head on my 998 was cracked and needed replacing. From previous experiences, I had no confidence in my dealer to do this RIGHT the first time, I did the work myself at my shop. At this time, my dealer had not had any 998 engines apart. The job involved getting a new bare head from Yamaha, transferring all the valves, checking valve seal, re-shimming valve lash, and then reassembly of engine (w ARP head studs). It turned out perfect.
About 3 months ago, I was at that dealer and they were working on several 998 heads. I was able to view the work and observe what was going on. I am VERY glad I didn't let them work on mine! They were just transferring the valves, not checking seal or even shim!! Just throw them in there and see if it runs. Well, long story short, went they went to fire the first one up, they didn't have the valve timing right and they bent some of the new valves they had just installed. Had to start all over again.
I know there are some dealers that have competent mechanics. We each have to decide if they can do quality work or not.

 

[kinger]

Do you hate it because of the problems or the design in general?
The point I am making, without trying to be a dink, is that ALL the problems were not the fault of the manufacture.

So my comment will be my OPINION and I'm not wanting to argue about it. We all ride what we like and what makes us happy.

To preface I am talking about 250+ plus full custom mod apex vs a 280hp SW - I'm not looking at stock to stock comparisons

I love the apex because I feel it was built with a defect FREE mentality, with yammie trying to prove they could do it better then anyone else. VERSUS the now corporate mentality of playing the percentages and with the number of SWs made the failure rate is pretty low I'm guessing especially if you split the metrics by repair type (driveshaft, tunnel, engine, etc)

So with a MOD sled like the apex, I love the guts:
- 4cyl engine at 12000 rpm is exhilarating, easy on clutches, and for the most part bullet proof.
-The clutches just worked, no cracked spiders, no breaking of belts, in fact I had to look up how to remove my belt because I forgot! Set it and forget it type of thing.
-The OEM jackshaft, and with the MB HD drive shaft are bullet proof even when severely punished
-The chain case has actual reusable seals and bullet proof, aside from stretching chains every 1-3 years pending miles, this requires no maint
-Die cast aluminum subframe is engineering geek out goodness for guys like me, and no bent subframes

EVERYTHING else can be modded, you have the ideal base to start with. On the apex I could tear it apart leaving that 'core' intact and LITERALLY change everything around it, fuel tank, tunnel, suspension, hood, lights, etc and was confident that Yammie did the heavy engineering work and that I wouldn't screw up the sled too bad nor would it break. The RAW design was PERFECT for a mod sled trail guy that wants unique but doesn't have the time to re-engineer through continuous break downs. So every year I made new mods, and proper maint in the off season and kept refining the ride, handling, and power but NEVER felt I built a unreliable finicky mod sled that only I could own. I also typically never lifted the hood once the snow flew. I liked this aspect of building then enjoying all winter.

What do I hate about the SW then? It should be better then the apex at all levels not to mention a steal of a price considering the Impulse race turbo kit on my apex was over $8Gs just by itself!

What I hate is they ruined the 'Core' They took away everything that was ALREADY proven and replaced with parts that fail more frequently but not considered defective.

-Clutches
-Chain case
-Oil tank leaks
-Roll over valve
-Drive shaft
-Rear skid
-Bending tunnels/chassis
-Shotty wiring

Even with ALL of that I was prepared to modify THAT crappy core with the help of awesome RnD vendors like BOP and others fixing the wrongs of Yammie/Cat merger. I was super excited about a steering system that didn't weigh 12lbs, a front suspension that was game changing, and a motor with real quality engine management (Motec like features).

In the end the crown jewel of this machine let me down and many others, turboflash, etc having to fixed cracked heads, then Yammie throws all the repairs on the backs of dealers and service techs that have little if any experience in building these complex powerhouses, vs offering long blocks to get people back on the trail fast. They are content to just let you suffer while the snow flies even though they are paying for it; you will wait.

Even when I get the motor to work, even if I do every single mod to fix the chassis/drivetrain/accessories type issues that were after thoughts, your still left with a machine that is hard to trust will get you back home. That is why I hate it. On top of it we pay new car amount of money for a toy that can't make it through 3-4 trips a year.

I don't mean to offend anyone, you may very well have a SW that has been flawless for 40,000 miles if so I am extremely happy for you. I have written it before out of the box the SW is custom high dollar mod sled like ride, handling, and power. Probably why you all are telling me to keep the winder. The difference was I was USED to that before the SW came out. Most of you can read my garage and see how excited I was about the mod apex sled. So I understand why you are now excited about the SW. Would I go take a stock apex out on the trail over a SW GOD NO! Would I like to take a modded apex that was lighter, better balanced, faster, handled better and reliable...HECK YES!!

If Yamaha comes out with a proven core, or the aftermarket (clutches, alighnment, BOP DS, etc etc) can prove we can make the chassis work then I will come back to the winder. If mine doesn't sell I will keep it and with limited miles each year should hold together.

 

[1nc 2000]

I wish the sidewinder had the cast side plates to house the drivetrain like in the apex or nytro chassis.
Looks like crracing did a vipex with their own bullet side plates.