upper gear bushing

[ClutchMaster]

I will say this one more time. You do not know if what you did to FINALLY make your bushing last a season is the fix since you did a lot more than one thing at a time and also did not put on the same miles and type of miles others do. It could just be driving style. Right now nobody knows what the solution is. Glad changing gears,tension and chain worked for you but it did not work for me. Only reason I have not tried more experimenting is the bushings are cheap and easy to change and I know I can get a season out of one without wrecking anything. Would be nice to not have to ever change it though. I appreciate all the experimenting.

It’s definitely not riding style. I beat my sled up hard, never changing how I rode. I also used the same lubricant I did in the past.

A lot different? Just a new chain and upper gear, ran it loose. Problem solved.

I understand you have been unable to cure your problem, don’t take it out on me.

I changed my chain and you did not.

There’s not much to a chain case, REPLACE YOUR CHAIN with a genuine Borg Warner and upper gear, you have all new parts. Set the chain tension loose and see what happens.

So go ahead and put that rock hard bushing in and don’t listen to someone who has been fixing industrial machines his whole life.

It’s a band aid fix for something else thats wrong, don’t you agree with that?



Man you guys wear me out sometimes

 

[SPM]

All this talk of fancy sunnen hones, cross hatch for oil retention............................
I would think you guys are intelligent enough to understand that there’s something wrong with your chain, or tension your running.
Guys with big horsepower including me are not having issues with the super soft coated bushings.
Fix the root cause!

PS.
If that super hard bushing makes even circle scratch around that shaft where the bushing ends........take a guess what’s gonna happen to that hardened steel shaft?

I've asked for more info on your magic chain but got nothing so I moved on as there are guys having great results with factory chain.
For those of you not having bushing wear, good for you! As for the rest of us I was willing to take the time to experiment with things and share my thoughts and results.
I'm tapping out of this one.....good luck guys.

 

[ClutchMaster]

You do realize that the ToughMet3 bushing is still softer than the shaft, right? How would you expect the bushing to "scratch" the shaft when it is made of a softer material?

You don’t get it. Why continue to put all that undo stress on your shaft, chain and bearings?
The chain is obviously climbing on the gears. Fix the excessive tension and it’s easier on everything.

 

[twyztid]

I've asked for more info on your magic chain but got nothing so I moved on as there are guys having great results with factory chain.
For those of you not having bushing wear, good for you! As for the rest of us I was willing to take the time to experiment with things and share my thoughts and results.
I'm tapping out of this one.....good luck guys.

I am about right there with you as far as leaving this thread as it seems like any testing of anything other than what Clutchmaster says is pure nonsense.

Most others here have interest in brainstorming and people trying something that hasn't been tested before.

Clutchmaster... my info comes from the manufacturer of the bushing AND and local machine shop that has made many custom bushings of this EXACT ToughMet3 material. I do not know you... therefore I trust the owner of the machine shop that I have worked with before far more than "some dude in a post on the internet".

 

[ClutchMaster]

I am about right there with you as far as leaving this thread as it seems like any testing of anything other than what Clutchmaster says is pure nonsense.

Most others here have interest in brainstorming and people trying something that hasn't been tested before.

Clutchmaster... my info comes from the manufacturer of the bushing AND and local machine shop that has made many custom bushings of this EXACT ToughMet3 material. I do not know you... therefore I trust the owner of the machine shop that I have worked with before far more than "some dude in a post on the internet".

You haven’t even checked the Rockwell hardness yet.

Here’s a link to hyvo chain
https://www.speedwerxstore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=3607

I’ll say one more time, fix the root cause. Don’t get mad I’m just trying to help you.

I would hate to see a bunch of guys try this and wreck their jackshafts.
Just because we disagree doesn’t mean you have to become offended.

Do what you think is best, but please don’t get personal and call me “some dude” many on here are my personal friends.

 

[twyztid]

Anyone who I don't know personally is just "some dude" to me.

 

[stevewithOCD]

SteveO, i'm still not understanding what the "fix" is.
Are you saying 1 turn out or 1.5? I'm not believing that a half a turn is the fix since everybody's "finger tight" will be different anyways.
Are you saying only use Borg Warner chain & gear? Does Borg Warner use a different bushing?
Are you saying our top gear is too small allowing the chain to climb? Cuz i don't want to go to a 22T. "Climbing" does not explain the wear on one side of the bushing. ROCKERDAN's explanation of one side being held by other gear makes good sense.
What exactly is this "root cause" you refer to?

I do know this.
I use good synthetic CHAIN lube with 1 oz of NRG release filled above sight glass.
I try to suck out oil in middle of season to refresh especially with new chain.
I have bolt 1 turn out, but it's always A LOT looser every time i adjust so it's running loose most of the time.
I also believe i got "lucky" for 10,000 miles.

I will change this gear/bushing every year now.
That is my fix.....................................unless i go Cat or Doo next year

P.S: Please don't yell at me. I'm very sensitive this time of year

 

[stevewithOCD]

I'm sensitive cuz it's 3 am and i can't sleep cuz there is huge 8 point running around my tree stand at night only

Gonna sneak in early & wait him out. Hopefully i don't obsess about this stupid gear issue we shouldn't have to worry about & miss my one opportunity.

 

[cannondale27]

It’s definitely not riding style. I beat my sled up hard, never changing how I rode. I also used the same lubricant I did in the past.

A lot different? Just a new chain and upper gear, ran it loose. Problem solved.

I understand you have been unable to cure your problem, don’t take it out on me.

I changed my chain and you did not.

There’s not much to a chain case, REPLACE YOUR CHAIN with a genuine Borg Warner and upper gear, you have all new parts. Set the chain tension loose and see what happens.

So go ahead and put that rock hard bushing in and don’t listen to someone who has been fixing industrial machines his whole life.

It’s a band aid fix for something else thats wrong, don’t you agree with that?



Man you guys wear me out sometimes

25-45 gearing means a new chain and gears. Run loose. Same thing.

 

[ClutchMaster]

SteveO, i'm still not understanding what the "fix" is.
Are you saying 1 turn out or 1.5? I'm not believing that a half a turn is the fix since everybody's "finger tight" will be different anyways.
Are you saying only use Borg Warner chain & gear? Does Borg Warner use a different bushing?
Are you saying our top gear is too small allowing the chain to climb? Cuz i don't want to go to a 22T. "Climbing" does not explain the wear on one side of the bushing. ROCKERDAN's explanation of one side being held by other gear makes good sense.
What exactly is this "root cause" you refer to?

I do know this.
I use good synthetic CHAIN lube with 1 oz of NRG release filled above sight glass.
I try to suck out oil in middle of season to refresh especially with new chain.
I have bolt 1 turn out, but it's always A LOT looser every time i adjust so it's running loose most of the time.
I also believe i got "lucky" for 10,000 miles.

I will change this gear/bushing every year now.
That is my fix.....................................unless i go Cat or Doo next year

P.S: Please don't yell at me. I'm very sensitive this time of year

The uneven bushing wear is due to the tooth engagement on the slider.
Chain climb is caused from the pitch of the chain being wrong or worn gears.

25-45 gearing means a new chain and gears. Run loose. Same thing.

Yes but you have been running that chain for some years now I thought?

All I can tell you is there’s still something wrong with your chain, gears, or how your tensioning your chain. It has nothing to do with power output, you don’t even have a turbo and many, including me, are running double the horsepower you have with good traction.
Don’t think that for one second just because you bought a new chain it was perfect. I work in an industrial environment and we see brand new products out of specification all the time.
Maybe you got a link belt chain, they make hyvo now too along with no name (China chain) I don’t know what you bought??
All I can do is tell you is what fixed my machine and some theories behind it. I went from a huge bushing eater, couldn’t even get a full season out of my sled without popping out of gear. Changed the upper gear and chain, ran it much looser than previously and WaLa the issue is gone. Nothing else changed period.

Take it for what it is, but for god sakes stop trying to say it’s normal for bushings to wear out every year, that is dead wrong. OCD had 10k miles on his bushing with a hell of a lot more power than you.

 

[ClutchMaster]

One and a half turns out from finger tight is subjective. I can feel the screw getting tight and still turn the adjustment another 3/4 of a turn by hand. That’s a big difference. Some might be tightening the screw as tight as possible with their fingers then backing out 1 turn. Others might be stopping when they start to feel resistance then backing out 1.5 turns. Huge difference.
I didn’t crank mine in by hand, just feel resistance then out 1.5 of a turn. It was very loose, I had to restrain myself from going more but I was doing what the manual said. It was almost rubbing the dam post!
After a full season the bushing looked brand new, usually it would have been toast. Couldn’t believe it myself.

There’s a reason the specification has changed from a half turn out on the old silent chain to the new 1.5 turns out with the hyvo chain.

 

[yamamarc]

I have a new bushing in my top gear this season since mine was worn bad just over 3000km on my 2019
I bought different gears set (taller) / chain and will be replacing once a put some kms on my stock set up to compare my 24/50 to 22/38
One thing I will do is check for run out on both shaft once I have it apart mid season!
Also I am sure the loose bearing doesn't help on the brake side of the driveshaft keeping thing parrallel in the chaincase!

I am not new to this chaincase had a 2014 turbo viper and zr7000! Both 2014's never worn out in 8000km

 

[Jafo1970]

I just opened my 17 winder up after 2000ish miles. I installed a 22 tooth scott taylor gear and syn tranny fluid when new. The stock chain was very tight to get on with the 22-41 setup but figured it's new it will loosen. I never checked or adjusted my chain or chained fluid, was too lazy to pull muffler. Chain stretched a good amount at 290hp and actually my chain adjuster wasn't even doing anything besides the spring tension, probably could have screwed it in 3/4" before it touched. Top gear bushing is perfect. So people shouldn't worry about the chain being too loose. AC changed the design at sometime since 2012 with the pads on the case to prevent the chain eating the sides of the case. My 2012 was tearing into the case if the chain was too loose.

 

[ClutchMaster]

I just opened my 17 winder up after 2000ish miles. I installed a 22 tooth scott taylor gear and syn tranny fluid when new. The stock chain was very tight to get on with the 22-41 setup but figured it's new it will loosen. I never checked or adjusted my chain or chained fluid, was too lazy to pull muffler. Chain stretched a good amount at 290hp and actually my chain adjuster wasn't even doing anything besides the spring tension, probably could have screwed it in 3/4" before it touched. Top gear bushing is perfect. So people shouldn't worry about the chain being too loose. AC changed the design at sometime since 2012 with the pads on the case to prevent the chain eating the sides of the case. My 2012 was tearing into the case if the chain was too loose.

Your chaincase is different, you have the pads not a solid roller design like the yamaha. If your chain is too tight the pads are there, they wear quickly and the chain loosens up fast. This prevents the bushing wear. It’s different with the yamaha solid roller, there’s no give.
That’s why the cats have had zero bushing issues.

 

[ClutchMaster]

I just opened my 17 winder up after 2000ish miles. I installed a 22 tooth scott taylor gear and syn tranny fluid when new. The stock chain was very tight to get on with the 22-41 setup but figured it's new it will loosen. I never checked or adjusted my chain or chained fluid, was too lazy to pull muffler. Chain stretched a good amount at 290hp and actually my chain adjuster wasn't even doing anything besides the spring tension, probably could have screwed it in 3/4" before it touched. Top gear bushing is perfect. So people shouldn't worry about the chain being too loose. AC changed the design at sometime since 2012 with the pads on the case to prevent the chain eating the sides of the case. My 2012 was tearing into the case if the chain was too loose.

Actually they had an auto tensioner with a spring and ratchet, roller design. Guys who upgraded to a hyvo chain had adjusters poking through the side of the case in no time. Wonder why that is? Proof positive that the back side of the chain actually gets tighter under power.

Listen to Yamaha, leave it loose.