Yamaha Cutting Production for 2019

[journeyman]

According to the new Snow West magazine they claim there is no expiration date for the Yam/Cat agreement. They claim there are more models coming that are shared between the two companies. We'll know in a few weeks.

 

[sxr70001]

According to the new Snow West magazine they claim there is no expiration date for the Yam/Cat agreement. They claim there are more models coming that are shared between the two companies. We'll know in a few weeks.

This seems to bear that out. The VP of Arctic Cat talks about the Yamaha partnership a little in this video.

 

[Sasquatch]

20/80 that old Massey Ferguson is the delta box, I guess I'm not getting the picture here you guys that are still running the apex what is it that you want. What if the four popper find its way into the pro cross would that make it better. You keep saying something from japan what do you think they have up their sleeve. You don't like the pro cross which is basically the same as Polaris and ski doo, maybe they need to re invent the wheel. I will agree the sleds that are built in japan have better fit and finish and electronics are the best but they have failed miserably trying to make a rider forward sled. I understand that not everybody wants rider forward and if that is the case what improvement's to the delta box that they have not already done would you like. I still feel that the new Yamaha and cat cross breed is a step in the right direction and will keep going that way in the future and all of you that are in love with the delta box are probably not going to be happy. Everybody wants something new or different from yamaha they come out with something new and all everybody does is complain its not 100% Yamaha. Is it really that big of deal my 2014 viper has had a lot less problems then my 2006 apex did. Let Yamaha build the motors and leave the rest up to the people that can build a sled with a decent front and rear suspension

Sadly we did not get anything new or different from Yamaha! Don't compare the 2006 Apex to the last gen Apex, Night and day difference! If Yamaha put the 4 hole in the procross it would at least keep the motor alive so that is better! I don't like the procross so maybe something inbetween the it and the Apex. I want the whole drivetrain of the Apex in a lighter pyramid style chassis with the Doo R motion rear skid with a bit of room on the seat to stretch out and cruise! You asked!

 

[yamajammer76]

Yamaha has to build and market what sells these days. My Dad still talks about the old timers lamenting the loss to bogie wheels to slide rails and later you had the leaf spring holdouts that claimed that new independent front suspension wouldn’t work and just cause drag. I even remember as a young boy some people who claimed oil injection was junk and they wanted premix forever. These technologies are dead along with the dedicated sit down solo trail cruising snowmobile. How many 2018 Apexs did Yamaha sell? I doubt anyone knows the count, but it’s probably in the low hundreds at best. They might have sold a few more Vectors because some rental operators still run them, but I’m guessing it’s a poor seller as well.

I’m not sure about other areas, but where I live Sidewinders and Vipers are probably 90% of the sleds stocked by Yamaha dealers. My local dealers claim the Cat built Yamahas are the only models they can sell. If the traditional sit down Yamahas are so loved why can’t they sell them? Where I live the big thing is going off trail and the SR sleds work MUCH better off trail. They also work much better on rough trail. I’m sure there are a few places the sit down cruisers work, but do those places even get reliable snowfall anymore?

I also notice many throw out dream scenarios which would cost Yamaha millions and millions to develop. They have no starting point. The last Nytro might have been a starting point, but that sled was botched from the start and never received substantial improvement. Where is the ROI on these dream scenarios? Yamaha has already limited their appeal by going 4 Stroke only. Now I love my 4 Stroke and it’s balanced well enough in my Viper that I don’t notice the weight, but it’s still a tough sell in the crossover and mountain market. I was playing in deep powder this weekend on my ‘16 Viper MTX 141” with a 2.25” power claw and it did great, but the 2 strokes are better for those technical riders.

I hope what was stated by the Arctic Cat VP of Snowmobiles is correct and they really do have a deep pipeline of co-developed new products. It might not be a solution forever, but for the next few years we could get some really nice products if done right. The Sidewinder/9000 project worked out very well and the SRViper basically kept Yamaha in the snowmobile business during the early to mid ‘10s engineering dry spell.

 

[20/80]

Yamaha has to build and market what sells these days. My Dad still talks about the old timers lamenting the loss to bogie wheels to slide rails and later you had the leaf spring holdouts that claimed that new independent front suspension wouldn’t work and just cause drag. I even remember as a young boy some people who claimed oil injection was junk and they wanted premix forever. These technologies are dead along with the dedicated sit down solo trail cruising snowmobile. How many 2018 Apexs did Yamaha sell? I doubt anyone knows the count, but it’s probably in the low hundreds at best. They might have sold a few more Vectors because some rental operators still run them, but I’m guessing it’s a poor seller as well.

I’m not sure about other areas, but where I live Sidewinders and Vipers are probably 90% of the sleds stocked by Yamaha dealers. My local dealers claim the Cat built Yamahas are the only models they can sell. If the traditional sit down Yamahas are so loved why can’t they sell them? Where I live the big thing is going off trail and the SR sleds work MUCH better off trail. They also work much better on rough trail. I’m sure there are a few places the sit down cruisers work, but do those places even get reliable snowfall anymore?

I also notice many throw out dream scenarios which would cost Yamaha millions and millions to develop. They have no starting point. The last Nytro might have been a starting point, but that sled was botched from the start and never received substantial improvement. Where is the ROI on these dream scenarios? Yamaha has already limited their appeal by going 4 Stroke only. Now I love my 4 Stroke and it’s balanced well enough in my Viper that I don’t notice the weight, but it’s still a tough sell in the crossover and mountain market. I was playing in deep powder this weekend on my ‘16 Viper MTX 141” with a 2.25” power claw and it did great, but the 2 strokes are better for those technical riders.

I hope what was stated by the Arctic Cat VP of Snowmobiles is correct and they really do have a deep pipeline of co-developed new products. It might not be a solution forever, but for the next few years we could get some really nice products if done right. The Sidewinder/9000 project worked out very well and the SRViper basically kept Yamaha in the snowmobile business during the early to mid ‘10s engineering dry spell.

I would think most 2018 Apex's are all bought up, there is a huge following for this sled, yes rental operators buy the Vectors because they are by most accounts are very reliable and will go many thousands of miles trouble free, you don't see these sleds in dealerships anymore because people that own them have no reason to trade, you talk about making change, the procross chassis is old, other than some plastic changes on the Sidewinder its the same old chassis, also the sr vipers or as I like to call them (STEAMERS) are getting old also, as far as off trail try following a fine tuned MTX Apex and its old tech on your wonderful new viper mtx (STEAMER) because that's all you will be doing Following while the old Apex breaks the trail. ...ps keep a eye on your chain case they like to leak and explode!

 

[yamajammer76]

I would think most 2018 Apex's are all bought up, there is a huge following for this sled, yes rental operators buy the Vectors because they are by most accounts are very reliable and will go many thousands of miles trouble free, you don't see these sleds in dealerships anymore because people that own them have no reason to trade, you talk about making change, the procross chassis is old, other than some plastic changes on the Sidewinder its the same old chassis, also the sr vipers or as I like to call them (STEAMERS) are getting old also, as far as off trail try following a fine tuned MTX Apex and its old tech on your wonderful new viper mtx (STEAMER) because that's all you will be doing Following while the old Apex breaks the trail. ...ps keep a eye on your chain case they like to leak and explode!

Steamer? I have no idea what you’re talking about. I was in 4+ foot of fresh in meadows yesterday and I didn’t have any issues. I’d rather have a little steam then 40 lbs of ice under the tunnel like the old rear exhaust Yamahas.

You hit the nail on the head. No one is trading. You can’t run a business of selling sleds if no one is ever motivated to buy new ones.

If the Apex MTX was an awesome sled for the steep and deep I’m surprised it was discontinued years ago without a direct replacement. Generally speaking when models are discontinued especially when the base model remains that tells me the take rate was poor.

My chain case is fine. I just ride and don’t spend half my time fretting about what could possibly happen. Too many paranoid people around here. I know this might be a complete shocker to you, but my Viper has been 100% reliable. It also has been more durable then my ‘12 Nytro ever was. You couldn’t keep the front frame from bending on that thing and it ate sliders like a fat kid at a candy store.

 

[TPAY243]

There are dealers around my area that have 16 and 17 apexs left over let along selling out of 18's why would you buy a new 18 when they are basically the same as an 11. The pro cross may not be something new for cat but it sure is for Yamaha, I don't follow an apex anywhere but I sure see a lot of them slowly disappearing in my rear view mirror. As far as reliability goes my 14 viper has a tick over 7000 miles I bought the 5yr extended warranty but never had to use it. Only time mine was in the shop was for the recall on the reverse actuator and by the way no problems with an exploding chain case. The apex is far from being a perfect sled I know because have owned 3 of them, whatever to each their own that's what makes the world go around

 

[20/80]

Steamer? I have no idea what you’re talking about. I was in 4+ foot of fresh in meadows yesterday and I didn’t have any issues. I’d rather have a little steam then 40 lbs of ice under the tunnel like the old rear exhaust Yamahas.

You hit the nail on the head. No one is trading. You can’t run a business of selling sleds if no one is ever motivated to buy new ones.

If the Apex MTX was an awesome sled for the steep and deep I’m surprised it was discontinued years ago without a direct replacement. Generally speaking when models are discontinued especially when the base model remains that tells me the take rate was poor.

My chain case is fine. I just ride and don’t spend half my time fretting about what could possibly happen. Too many paranoid people around here. I know this might be a complete shocker to you, but my Viper has been 100% reliable. It also has been more durable then my ‘12 Nytro ever was. You couldn’t keep the front frame from bending on that thing and it ate sliders like a fat kid at a candy store.

The mtx was replaced by the xtx, sounds like you really hammered your 12 Nitro, try that with your Viper.

 

[20/80]

There are dealers around my area that have 16 and 17 apexs left over let along selling out of 18's why would you buy a new 18 when they are basically the same as an 11. The pro cross may not be something new for cat but it sure is for Yamaha, I don't follow an apex anywhere but I sure see a lot of them slowly disappearing in my rear view mirror. As far as reliability goes my 14 viper has a tick over 7000 miles I bought the 5yr extended warranty but never had to use it. Only time mine was in the shop was for the recall on the reverse actuator and by the way no problems with an exploding chain case. The apex is far from being a perfect sled I know because have owned 3 of them, whatever to each their own that's what makes the world go around

Good to have extra warranty for the Viper, you must of liked the Apex's if you owned 3, you really raised the bar buying a 14 Viper, as far as a Apex disappearing in your rear view mirror buddy on the Apex must have been stopped and taking a piss.

 

[yamajammer76]

The mtx was replaced by the xtx, sounds like you really hammered your 12 Nitro, try that with your Viper.

I thought the XTX was shorter, had a wider front end and a shorter lug then the MTX. Wouldn't that make it work worse not better in deep snow riding? I don't see how the XTX was an improvement in deep snow, but whatever. DBII is probably EOL after the 18 model year anyhow.

If you take some time to review the 2018 Snowmobile Technical Update Seminar that was posted on this site you would notice that SR sleds weigh on average 100 lbs less then comparable DBII sleds. That's a huge difference!

The Nytro subframe got tweaked loading on a trailer when it caught a little. Later crossing a cattle guard messed it up a bit more. You can believe what you want, but the Procross frame is much stronger then the Nytro frame.

 

[20/80]

I thought the XTX was shorter, had a wider front end and a shorter lug then the MTX. Wouldn't that make it work worse not better in deep snow riding? I don't see how the XTX was an improvement in deep snow, but whatever. DBII is probably EOL after the 18 model year anyhow.

If you take some time to review the 2018 Snowmobile Technical Update Seminar that was posted on this site you would notice that SR sleds weigh on average 100 lbs less then comparable DBII sleds. That's a huge difference!

The Nytro subframe got tweaked loading on a trailer when it caught a little. Later crossing a cattle guard messed it up a bit more. You can believe what you want, but the Procross frame is much stronger then the Nytro frame.

The xtx was introduced as the trend shifted towards the crossover sleds, the apex mtx had a 162 inch track and a dry weight of 608 lbs the xtx has a 146 inch with 1 3/4 lug for the deeper stuff or if you prefer 1 1/4 track for groomed trail and weighs between 690 and 700 with the extra goodies on them now, not sure what a viper mtx weighs.

 

[Sasquatch]

Yamaha has to build and market what sells these days. My Dad still talks about the old timers lamenting the loss to bogie wheels to slide rails and later you had the leaf spring holdouts that claimed that new independent front suspension wouldn’t work and just cause drag. I even remember as a young boy some people who claimed oil injection was junk and they wanted premix forever. These technologies are dead along with the dedicated sit down solo trail cruising snowmobile. How many 2018 Apexs did Yamaha sell? I doubt anyone knows the count, but it’s probably in the low hundreds at best. They might have sold a few more Vectors because some rental operators still run them, but I’m guessing it’s a poor seller as well.

I’m not sure about other areas, but where I live Sidewinders and Vipers are probably 90% of the sleds stocked by Yamaha dealers. My local dealers claim the Cat built Yamahas are the only models they can sell. If the traditional sit down Yamahas are so loved why can’t they sell them? Where I live the big thing is going off trail and the SR sleds work MUCH better off trail. They also work much better on rough trail. I’m sure there are a few places the sit down cruisers work, but do those places even get reliable snowfall anymore?

I also notice many throw out dream scenarios which would cost Yamaha millions and millions to develop. They have no starting point. The last Nytro might have been a starting point, but that sled was botched from the start and never received substantial improvement. Where is the ROI on these dream scenarios? Yamaha has already limited their appeal by going 4 Stroke only. Now I love my 4 Stroke and it’s balanced well enough in my Viper that I don’t notice the weight, but it’s still a tough sell in the crossover and mountain market. I was playing in deep powder this weekend on my ‘16 Viper MTX 141” with a 2.25” power claw and it did great, but the 2 strokes are better for those technical riders.

I hope what was stated by the Arctic Cat VP of Snowmobiles is correct and they really do have a deep pipeline of co-developed new products. It might not be a solution forever, but for the next few years we could get some really nice products if done right. The Sidewinder/9000 project worked out very well and the SRViper basically kept Yamaha in the snowmobile business during the early to mid ‘10s engineering dry spell.

Sit down riding is very popular in the thousands of miles of trails I have rode in three provinces and yep they get snow. The sit down trail cruising sled is far from dead! In fact 99.9% of the people I meet or pass are all sitting down. Sounds like you are the steep and deep crowd and thats fine but the trail cruiser crowd still likes the sit down sled. Apex is a smaller market but so is any sled if you look at it individually and the Nytro was supposed to be the slam the bumps stand up sled but yep it was full of problems and not well received. In fact it received such disdain from the Yamaha riders themselves that no one would buy one! Yet there are lots of them out there being ridden and they love em, Go figure! So two Yamaha sleds both hated by the competition and the Yamaha riders them selves! Yet those who still ride them, love them and do not want to part with them! Maybe its a Cult thing!

Why didn't I buy a 2018? Because my 2011 is far from worn out at 12,000 miles and runs like new, like most Apex riders they like a sled that doesn't have to be traded in and disposed of every few years. Yamaha build them to last and that may have been thier downfall! My 05 has 18,000 miles and runs like new, I would trust it to go on a 1,600 mile bagger trip with out hesitation. I ran it from 2005 to 2013, the only reason I bought an Apex was for EPS so I could still run carbide and not kill my shoulders. (yes old age sucks) My Apex if indeed the last Apex will probably be my last sled!

If I wanted a Cat I would have bought one, I wanted a Yamaha and bought two of them! I bought them because they where the most reliable cruiser sleds put out by any manufacture and I still believe that today. I bought them for the right reasons but way to many bought them for the wrong reasons and then the Apex Hate started. While cat is not a bad sled without the Yamaha drive train I hesitate to put any faith in it for the long haul. My Apex has been a problem free sled I don't think from what I see out there any other sled standing up to my size and staying together mile after mile.

I think we are moving back into the area of disposable sleds and I will take strength over lightweight any day!

 

[Sasquatch]

Steamer? I have no idea what you’re talking about. I was in 4+ foot of fresh in meadows yesterday and I didn’t have any issues. I’d rather have a little steam then 40 lbs of ice under the tunnel like the old rear exhaust Yamahas.

I know this might be a complete shocker to you, but my Viper has been 100% reliable. It also has been more durable then my ‘12 Nytro ever was. You couldn’t keep the front frame from bending on that thing and it ate sliders like a fat kid at a candy store.

I dont have a problem with ice buildup but do carry a small plastic hammer to knock what little ice i do get off in the morning! The same hammer I carried when I rode my Cats for the same reason!

Yep the Nytro front end was weak but easy to change!

 

[Sasquatch]

I still ride my sled I don't carry it but if weight is the deciding factor the only cruiser that Cat makes that is close in comparison is the STX DX 146 and its 32 pds lighter then the Apex 1.75 XTX. The 2018 XTX 1.75 weighs as much dry weight (which is a stupid way to assess weight it should be done wet) as My 2011 XTX 1.25! Bringing the STX DX 146 within a few pds of MY XTX. Good to know as its the only sled in the lineup that is interesting!

If weight is that important then I guess Doo wins hands down, Nephews sled is way under 500pds! Doo guys say Cat is Fat! LOL!

 

[1FastStang]

Sit down riding is very popular in the thousands of miles of trails I have rode in three provinces and yep they get snow. The sit down trail cruising sled is far from dead! In fact 99.9% of the people I meet or pass are all sitting down. Sounds like you are the steep and deep crowd and thats fine but the trail cruiser crowd still likes the sit down sled. Apex is a smaller market but so is any sled if you look at it individually and the Nytro was supposed to be the slam the bumps stand up sled but yep it was full of problems and not well received. In fact it received such disdain from the Yamaha riders themselves that no one would buy one! Yet there are lots of them out there being ridden and they love em, Go figure! So two Yamaha sleds both hated by the competition and the Yamaha riders them selves! Yet those who still ride them, love them and do not want to part with them! Maybe its a Cult thing!

Why didn't I buy a 2018? Because my 2011 is far from worn out at 12,000 miles and runs like new, like most Apex riders they like a sled that doesn't have to be traded in and disposed of every few years. Yamaha build them to last and that may have been thier downfall! My 05 has 18,000 miles and runs like new, I would trust it to go on a 1,600 mile bagger trip with out hesitation. I ran it from 2005 to 2013, the only reason I bought an Apex was for EPS so I could still run carbide and not kill my shoulders. (yes old age sucks) My Apex if indeed the last Apex will probably be my last sled!

If I wanted a Cat I would have bought one, I wanted a Yamaha and bought two of them! I bought them because they where the most reliable cruiser sleds put out by any manufacture and I still believe that today. I bought them for the right reasons but way to many bought them for the wrong reasons and then the Apex Hate started. While cat is not a bad sled without the Yamaha drive train I hesitate to put any faith in it for the long haul. My Apex has been a problem free sled I don't think from what I see out there any other sled standing up to my size and staying together mile after mile.

I think we are moving back into the area of disposable sleds and I will take strength over lightweight any day!

Well put Sasquatch! The only way to make lighter sleds is to make them more disposable! Making sleds lighter is done using less metal in existing materials or use lighter materials that have the same strength capabilities. In order use these high priced materials as a manufacturer you would price your sled out of the market. If Yamaha could only redesign the current Apex to a slightly more forward seating position!