3500 miles driveshaft and bearing smoked

[cannondale27]

Both shafts drilled and tapped,driveshaft back in,but break does not want to be blead well,muffler all back togeather,new cat RR shaft tapped and bolts ready to go,just waiting for my inner bogie wheels to come in,and will be able to put skid back in. Yes I did drill tap and install a set screw in the driveshaft,it had .007 thou between the race and shaft,so peening the shaft would not have been enough.

Geeze must be nice to be Retired! That was quick.

 

[Lonerider]

The problem is not the bearing or the shaft. Its much worse. The drive shaft is not being installed square from side to side, this is why most outer part of the drive shaft is showing the most wear. Once it has wear, the chain comes loose. Some in under 1000 miles the shafts are already shot. the holes that are drilled or punched for the break caliper in the tunnel have to much tolerance. These 3 holes will start to egg out and the problem gets worse. If you remove the caliper there is no way to know if its been reinstalled perfectly square across from the chain case. This is just another design flaw. Every one of these parts can be replaced, but WHEN the holes are egged like mine are your screwed. Everything was tight, parts where new but the only thing that holds WHAT-265, 285 Hp driveshaft AND the entire break mechanism is 2- 1.5 mm pieces of tin. Every time you squeeze the throttle & every time you touch the break the tin gets weaker and weaker and weaker. Then it starts moving. ( NOTE: the break caliper and drive shaft bearing housing is only attached to the tunnel by 3 through bolts SQUEEZING the tunnel,) So now what? Can't hardly replace the tunnel every other year (being generous). This problem is going to be on EVERY sled! I personally wouldn't drill a hole in the driveshaft, your going to make it worse when it does fail, and giving Yamaha & the dealers a reason to deny a warranty issue. Besides it might dimple the bearing race and wear it out faster or even worse somehow get in-between the brake pads... Don't even want to go there because nothing can get out to the caliper guard anyhow. ( another piss poor design) SO I have a couple of questions. #1 how many have removed the caliper and inspected your tunnel for the holes egging? #2 How many are having caliper side bearing failure/driveshaft wear? So a drive shaft assemble is about $ 235, bearing $20 need 2. Labor was quoted to install these parts was 5.5 hours. Bearings and Driveshaft are wear items I was told by a dealer and NOT a warranty item. We talked about my tunnel egging & how it could be fixed- lets just be nice and say he didn't have a clue, he asked if I had insurance?? What you going to total my sled because a piece of tin wore out? WTF!?

I really need to know how many people are having this issue.

Just for the record I have 6500 miles on my sidewinder and have had to fix the belt issue, replace the PTO & Primary- bent from blowing a belts-about 20, entire chain case do to broken chain, Driveshafts shot, now this caliper/tunnel issue. & had the oil tank leak, primary spring break in under 500 miles, roller issue, lower side panel replaced 2 times- on my 3rd With a tunnel guard installed in all 3. (might need abetter one-lol) and the tri hub explouded - and the skis were #*$&@... But the engine is great! Seriously the 4 sleds we have checked all have this driveshaft problem, Working on a real fix, more info to pass on soon.

 

[KnappAttack]

I have no egging in the tunnel, but the worn shaft in 2300 miles is getting replaced along with the bearing which is still full of grease. It will either get a set screw put in or punched and loctited solid to the shaft, haven't decided yet, but its not going to be a slip fit for me again. Glued or screwed, thats it.

If the bolts are tight I see no reason for the holes to get egged out. If bolts are not tight it could however.

Why this shaft and bearing assembly hasn't been updated yet is beyond me. Well maybe it's not, it is a Cat after all.

 

[XP123]

Both shafts drilled and tapped,driveshaft back in,but break does not want to be blead well,muffler all back togeather,new cat RR shaft tapped and bolts ready to go,just waiting for my inner bogie wheels to come in,and will be able to put skid back in. Yes I did drill tap and install a set screw in the driveshaft,it had .007 thou between the race and shaft,so peening the shaft would not have been enough.

Don't worry about the brake. I went through it last year. The best way to bleed it is jut leave the bleed valve slightly open and let it gravity bleed. Add more fluid and let it bleed. It will still feel spongy until you ride it some and use the brake. After that the lever will get firm again and work like it should.

 

[cannondale27]

The problem is not the bearing or the shaft. Its much worse. The drive shaft is not being installed square from side to side, this is why most outer part of the drive shaft is showing the most wear. Once it has wear, the chain comes loose. Some in under 1000 miles the shafts are already shot. the holes that are drilled or punched for the break caliper in the tunnel have to much tolerance. These 3 holes will start to egg out and the problem gets worse. If you remove the caliper there is no way to know if its been reinstalled perfectly square across from the chain case. This is just another design flaw. Every one of these parts can be replaced, but WHEN the holes are egged like mine are your screwed. Everything was tight, parts where new but the only thing that holds WHAT-265, 285 Hp driveshaft AND the entire break mechanism is 2- 1.5 mm pieces of tin. Every time you squeeze the throttle & every time you touch the break the tin gets weaker and weaker and weaker. Then it starts moving. ( NOTE: the break caliper and drive shaft bearing housing is only attached to the tunnel by 3 through bolts SQUEEZING the tunnel,) So now what? Can't hardly replace the tunnel every other year (being generous). This problem is going to be on EVERY sled! I personally wouldn't drill a hole in the driveshaft, your going to make it worse when it does fail, and giving Yamaha & the dealers a reason to deny a warranty issue. Besides it might dimple the bearing race and wear it out faster or even worse somehow get in-between the brake pads... Don't even want to go there because nothing can get out to the caliper guard anyhow. ( another piss poor design) SO I have a couple of questions. #1 how many have removed the caliper and inspected your tunnel for the holes egging? #2 How many are having caliper side bearing failure/driveshaft wear? So a drive shaft assemble is about $ 235, bearing $20 need 2. Labor was quoted to install these parts was 5.5 hours. Bearings and Driveshaft are wear items I was told by a dealer and NOT a warranty item. We talked about my tunnel egging & how it could be fixed- lets just be nice and say he didn't have a clue, he asked if I had insurance?? What you going to total my sled because a piece of tin wore out? WTF!?

I really need to know how many people are having this issue.

Just for the record I have 6500 miles on my sidewinder and have had to fix the belt issue, replace the PTO & Primary- bent from blowing a belts-about 20, entire chain case do to broken chain, Driveshafts shot, now this caliper/tunnel issue. & had the oil tank leak, primary spring break in under 500 miles, roller issue, lower side panel replaced 2 times- on my 3rd With a tunnel guard installed in all 3. (might need abetter one-lol) and the tri hub explouded - and the skis were #*$&@... But the engine is great! Seriously the 4 sleds we have checked all have this driveshaft problem, Working on a real fix, more info to pass on soon.

You do realize that every snowmobile made in last 20 years has had the driveshaft bearing held by 3 bolts squeezing the tunnel? Also all brake side bearing wear I have seen has been perfectly flat not tapered. Your bolts were loose. That's what egged the holes. I agree the fit of shaft to bearing is terrible and any beefing up idea you have for the three bolts I am interested in but only because if they come loose would be nice to be stronger there. What are you thinking? A plate with that bolt pattern?

 

[nbsledder]

After reading this thread,makes me regret my purchase big time!......Wish i would have left it at the dealerhip!

 

[XP123]

After reading this thread,makes me regret my purchase big time!......Wish i would have left it at the dealerhip!

Don't let all the negative BS scare you. The Winder is a great sled and has been proven reliable.
While I'm no fan of some of the Cat engineering you will find that many problems are magnified on these forums. Just ride it and enjoy it.

 

[Crossfire12]

Don't worry about the brake. I went through it last year. The best way to bleed it is jut leave the bleed valve slightly open and let it gravity bleed. Add more fluid and let it bleed. It will still feel spongy until you ride it some and use the brake. After that the lever will get firm again and work like it should.

Bleed from bottom up hook up squeeze bottle with plastic fuel line. Attach to bleeder open it, suezze till reservoir stops squirting air all bled, done It many times on sleds

 

[JestersYamacat]

I have to agree with Knapp and others that there should be some type of locking on the shaft to ensure the shaft doesn't get ruined if you have a bearing go bad. I know of many sleds coming up on 20000 KM up here on 17s and still fine. So the theory that they are all going to fail is wrong. You do have to pay close attention to the bearing for sure. I will be peaning mine as Rockerdan suggested. I also know of several older 1100T with 30000 km on them with just one bearing change and the design is the same.



Jester

 

[Motorhead]

Both shafts drilled and tapped,driveshaft back in,but break does not want to be blead well,muffler all back togeather,new cat RR shaft tapped and bolts ready to go,just waiting for my inner bogie wheels to come in,and will be able to put skid back in. Yes I did drill tap and install a set screw in the driveshaft,it had .007 thou between the race and shaft,so peening the shaft would not have been enough.

So when you slid the new bearing on the new shaft, .007" allowed it to come back off without any resistance I bet, and may have also been able to wobble the bearing on the shaft ?

Bad design and non quality replacement components.

Nice catch Pete. Hopefully you get to enjoy a trouble free riding season once it's all back together. Had mine out last weekend, man these things ride and handle great, and that power!

But for sure all of the engineered flaws on this sled, make it a high maintenance toy.

 

[Bigblue1]

Bleed from bottom up hook up squeeze bottle with plastic fuel line. Attach to bleeder open it, suezze till reservoir stops squirting air all bled, done It many times on sleds

Actually, everything you said only more of it. Just went through it. Keep running fluid through until you get good feedback, then use the standard bleed method fro as long as it takes until rock hard. Takes some time but does happen. If you look real close with good light there are micro bubbles that have to come out, then it firms up nicely.

 

[XP123]

Actually, everything you said only more of it. Just went through it. Keep running fluid through until you get good feedback, then use the standard bleed method fro as long as it takes until rock hard. Takes some time but does happen. If you look real close with good light there are micro bubbles that have to come out, then it firms up nicely.

I did all that stuff last year with poor results. I found the best way was just fill the res with fluid, leave the cover off, crack the bleeder and let it gravity feed for a few hours. Just fill the res when it starts getting low. I did this while I did other stuff in my shop checking it on and off. I then took it for a ride next day and it started off a little spongy but after awhile it got firmer and firmer and eventually was perfect. I got this info from an old sled mechanic that told me gravity bleeding was the easiest way to do it because the caliper is all down hill from the res. and there was no need to pump the brake lever. It worked for me and that's all I will ever do again in the future.

 

[snowbeast]

So when you slid the new bearing on the new shaft, .007" allowed it to come back off without any resistance I bet, and may have also been able to wobble the bearing on the shaft ?

Bad design and non quality replacement components.

Nice catch Pete. Hopefully you get to enjoy a trouble free riding season once it's all back together. Had mine out last weekend, man these things ride and handle great, and that power!

But for sure all of the engineered flaws on this sled, make it a high maintenance toy.

Hi dennis,yes all back togeather,now only problem is brakes,they just don't want to bleed enough,and keep a good handle full of brake,i can pull them to the bars easy,dont mater how many times you pump them,and you can see it breathing from caliper on top above the bleeder,where the two halfes come togeather,there are two sides to the pistons and two seals,they al went back togeather quite easy,but just wont bleed out,dont seem full of air either,just darn funny they wont pump up hard. The 8.5 oz bottle of chaincase fluid don't seem like enough,cant even see it in the view window. Changed all fluids and no leaks,larson 4-whel kit very nice,track tight but does not sem to have much adjustment side to side,wheels wider it seems. How many miles did you have on that track dennis,am hoping it don't stretch a lot any more?Almost forgot to answer your question on bearing,yes you could still wobble it some,set screw did its job,and Yamaha took care of the bill,way to go Yamaha,thank you.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Spent a few hours searching online....Could not find a bearing with lock/collar in this size anywhere. Not saying it isnt made, but sure seems that way.

So If we are stuck with stock bearing. The alternative to drill shaft and set screw would be to clamp down on inner race from the side. Been throwing this theory around for a few days, and Not sure it is worth a try but hoping Travis will read this and think it over.

Not sure how strong the INNER snap ring is, But if we can sandwich the inner race between that inner snap ring and the rotor, it would not be able to spin on shaft. The Rotor is already laying against the bearing race, so if we could come up with a bolt and large washer and some shims.....To do this we would need to weld in a nut or something to thread into. So we could thread a bolt into the hollow end of shaft, tighten it down on a large washer and have shims to tighten that washer against the rotor. This would sandwich the bearing race between rotor and inner snap ring. It might be smart to remove inner snap ring and replace with something more permanent tack welded in place.

This would take some welding work, but it seems like maybe something Travis could come up with a kit of some sort.

Dan

 

[snowbeast]

I did all that stuff last year with poor results. I found the best way was just fill the res with fluid, leave the cover off, crack the bleeder and let it gravity feed for a few hours. Just fill the res when it starts getting low. I did this while I did other stuff in my shop checking it on and off. I then took it for a ride next day and it started off a little spongy but after awhile it got firmer and firmer and eventually was perfect. I got this info from an old sled mechanic that told me gravity bleeding was the easiest way to do it because the caliper is all down hill from the res. and there was no need to pump the brake lever. It worked for me and that's all I will ever do again in the future.

Sounds good thanks brother,we are going to lose all our snow state wide,we were going to camp 27th but there wont be much left,50 degrees and 2" of rain for 3 days,not good.