2022 Sidewinder ltx eps - getting rid of push

[1nc 2000]

Power steering also takes a bit to get the feel for it. Easy to turn past the grip of the ski and create push.

 

[74Nitro]

Power steering also takes a bit to get the feel for it. Easy to turn past the grip of the ski and create push.

Excellent point that a lot of riders wouldn't pick up on.

 

[earthling]

Power steering also takes a bit to get the feel for it. Easy to turn past the grip of the ski and create push.

While power steering may mask some feel for the trail at low to mid speed, I think an experienced rider will pick up the difference and adapt pretty quickly but...

I think the bulk of this discussion comes down to riding style and riding conditions. If you are used to riding the sharp edge of handling on big fast groomers where the power steering isn't (as) active and edge grip is more about steering feedback/finesse you aren't going to be very happy with a higher ride height, it could just be that simple.

If you are setting up a car for a wide open smooth race track vs a tight street course you would prioritize roll control, lower the car as much as possible, set up the preload to be stiff, turn up damping, and focus on steering and pedal feel (slow is smooth, smooth is fast). A street course needs more weight transfer (roll and pitch), higher ride height, probably less damping, higher steering ratio, more aggressive pedals and you would prioritize quicker acceleration over mid to top end performance (course dependent).

 

[Richard Hodgins]

While power steering may mask some feel for the trail at low to mid speed, I think an experienced rider will pick up the difference and adapt pretty quickly but...

I think the bulk of this discussion comes down to riding style and riding conditions. If you are used to riding the sharp edge of handling on big fast groomers where the power steering isn't (as) active and edge grip is more about steering feedback/finesse you aren't going to be very happy with a higher ride height, it could just be that simple.

If you are setting up a car for a wide open smooth race track vs a tight street course you would prioritize roll control, lower the car as much as possible, set up the preload to be stiff, turn up damping, and focus on steering and pedal feel (slow is smooth, smooth is fast). A street course needs more weight transfer (roll and pitch), higher ride height, probably less damping, higher steering ratio, more aggressive pedals and you would prioritize quicker acceleration over mid to top end performance (course dependent).

THIS!!!! @earthling you always have the best understanding and descriptions. I will take lower any day with my style of riding, its what it comes down to, not so much the power steering. I'd love to put power steering on a pre-20 sled. I have a complete parts list already set up, I figure about $2500 USD including the new ECU and wiring harness which is needed.
But at my speeds, the power steering isnt active anyways so not sure the upgrade is worth it.

Here's a question for everyone, what's your average speed? I mean ACTUAL, dividing actual hours on sled by actual mileage on sled. That usually gives an honest indication of how fast people ride.
Mine is 4100kms, and 65 hours which is an average speed of of 63kms/hr total. Most other sleds I see (used or other are around low 40s).

 

[earthling]

THIS!!!! @earthling you always have the best understanding and descriptions. I will take lower any day with my style of riding, its what it comes down to, not so much the power steering. I'd love to put power steering on a pre-20 sled. I have a complete parts list already set up, I figure about $2500 USD including the new ECU and wiring harness which is needed.
But at my speeds, the power steering isnt active anyways so not sure the upgrade is worth it.

Here's a question for everyone, what's your average speed? I mean ACTUAL, dividing actual hours on sled by actual mileage on sled. That usually gives an honest indication of how fast people ride.
Mine is 4100kms, and 65 hours which is an average speed of of 63kms/hr total. Most other sleds I see (used or other are around low 40s).

I am right at 41km/h and I am not slow but our trails are

We should make this a poll, it would be interesting as a datapoint but highly skewed by riding conditions and purpose.

 

[74Nitro]

THIS!!!! @earthling you always have the best understanding and descriptions. I will take lower any day with my style of riding, its what it comes down to, not so much the power steering. I'd love to put power steering on a pre-20 sled. I have a complete parts list already set up, I figure about $2500 USD including the new ECU and wiring harness which is needed.
But at my speeds, the power steering isnt active anyways so not sure the upgrade is worth it.

Here's a question for everyone, what's your average speed? I mean ACTUAL, dividing actual hours on sled by actual mileage on sled. That usually gives an honest indication of how fast people ride.
Mine is 4100kms, and 65 hours which is an average speed of of 63kms/hr total. Most other sleds I see (used or other are around low 40s).

I get what you're saying but even on my trip to areas north of Timmins two years ago, which I call the 400 series highways of sled trails, my arms were still beat at the end of every day. I'm looking forward to power steering.

 

[74Nitro]

A group of riders I know recently returned from a trip to the Kap area. The only Yamaha was a new power steering model. The owner of it ended up with it after the Viper he had on order hadn't shown up yet.
All the other machines were 800's and 850's. They all took turns switching between machines. The power steering received high praise from all the other riders.
Another common line was "wow that thing just doesn't stop pulling".

 

[KnappAttack]

THIS!!!! @earthling you always have the best understanding and descriptions. I will take lower any day with my style of riding, its what it comes down to, not so much the power steering. I'd love to put power steering on a pre-20 sled. I have a complete parts list already set up, I figure about $2500 USD including the new ECU and wiring harness which is needed.
But at my speeds, the power steering isnt active anyways so not sure the upgrade is worth it.

Here's a question for everyone, what's your average speed? I mean ACTUAL, dividing actual hours on sled by actual mileage on sled. That usually gives an honest indication of how fast people ride.
Mine is 4100kms, and 65 hours which is an average speed of of 63kms/hr total. Most other sleds I see (used or other are around low 40s).

Why not just put the shorter spindles on the EPS sled? Or take the stock spindles and just shorten them by cutting & welding? Would save you a whole lot more than trying to covert the older non EPS machine.

 

[Simplespeed]

THIS!!!! @earthling you always have the best understanding and descriptions. I will take lower any day with my style of riding, its what it comes down to, not so much the power steering. I'd love to put power steering on a pre-20 sled. I have a complete parts list already set up, I figure about $2500 USD including the new ECU and wiring harness which is needed.
But at my speeds, the power steering isnt active anyways so not sure the upgrade is worth it.

Here's a question for everyone, what's your average speed? I mean ACTUAL, dividing actual hours on sled by actual mileage on sled. That usually gives an honest indication of how fast people ride.
Mine is 4100kms, and 65 hours which is an average speed of of 63kms/hr total. Most other sleds I see (used or other are around low 40s).

Let agree with the guy that states handling on any snowmoblie is subjective to say the least, and shock valueing , spring settings, roll center, camber, and alignment along with rear sissors, blocks all have a great impact … Even tucking the suspension up in the tunnel will effect the turning.. Yes lower center of gravity along with the right placement of weight is big also… The studing( lenghts and numbers) effect the handling along with conditions.. When you got your 2019 dialed in , it railed right, now you jump on a newer one with changes and it steer like a plow truck… You try some changes, ski’s , carbide ect.. with no good results or at least as good as your 2019.. so your selling the new one or the 2019 ? Your trail speed listed is not all that fast, depending on type of trail of course.. When I look at MPH it’s usually between 40 and 70 most of the time… Railroad grades or power lines faster, tight trails lower… Intresting of changes they made to newer models…

 

[1nc 2000]

My sled corners better with my qs3 shocks set on soft. (Front, rear rear shocks).
I set them to medium and it doesn't corner as good. Chassis is more active on soft setting.
Light chop they are on soft.
Moguls and trail junk gets medium compression settings and sometimes hard setting on rear shock.
Trail conditions change and so do my settings and riding styles.

 

[2004yamahaviper]

Your Hr meter on dash also calculates warm up time and idle time, driving in and out of garages/ trailers when your not moving. Take your total hrs and kms and do the math I'm sure it's alot less then you think. Driven with Richard before he's definitely not a slow driver.

 

[Weslemkoon]

My sled corners better with my qs3 shocks set on soft. (Front, rear rear shocks).
I set them to medium and it doesn't corner as good. Chassis is more active on soft setting.
Light chop they are on soft.
Moguls and trail junk gets medium compression settings and sometimes hard setting on rear shock.
Trail conditions change and so do my settings and riding styles.

1400kms in Quebec this week and I agree. Saddlebaging and gas caddy doesn't help, but I found the best handling with the qs3s set to soft.

 

[cannondale27]

OK that makes sense, they were on cat skis!
I'm curious if there is that much difference between the CAT, Stryke and 5.7R skis? They are all single keel and quite similar widths. I just dont understand how the 5.7R is that much better, I thought it was a clone of a C&A ski. The regular 5.7 and 6.9 are obviously way different with the raised outer keel.

The Cat ski has a thinner Keel than the Stryker. The Stryker keel is too wide. They suck unless you were to put some fancy Carbide setup on them and at that point it’s the Carbide not the ski that works. Pilot 6.9 with Shaper bars center and cheap SnoStuds outside are my favorite but Curve and CA both work well also without the fancy Carbides. For purely aggressive riding CA for sure.

 

[WinderFab]

I am right at 41km/h and I am not slow but our trails are

We should make this a poll, it would be interesting as a datapoint but highly skewed by riding conditions and purpose.

Even though it’s definitely highly skewed by riding conditions and purpose I would of thought more would of shared their numbers

 

[earthling]

Even though it’s definitely highly skewed by riding conditions and purpose I would of thought more would of shared their numbers

My sled is new, and I really haven't had time to wring it out so the results are heavily biased by just getting to trails and riding in larger groups predominantly the last few years due to work. I agree, it would be interesting to see more numbers shared.