Finally have my Sidewinder

[number1kyster]

Pretty big drop in power compared to the Winder but guys like them. They are no more reliable than any other big bore 2 stroke which is really too bad.

Pretty big drop in power compared to Dan's Winder for sure. Compared to my Stock SW, they are damn close.

 

[rnusr01]

View attachment 148250 Took it out tonight.the Z06 rocks

Hi Preacher,

Welcome to the SW club.

 

[SqueezeER]

are they really that bad? I heard they were a good motor (for a 2 stroke)...or just all 2 strokes in general you think are junk?

I can't believe you sold your sled Dan. You had your Winder set up perfect with every possible update. I would call it the perfect sled. The worst part is now you're talking about getting an 850 Doo! Wow do you really want to deal with another ticking time bomb 2 stroke junk from Doo?

 

[Winder_506]

are they really that bad? I heard they were a good motor (for a 2 stroke)...or just all 2 strokes in general you think are junk?

There are several 850 doo on the trail. Here in my area there have been a few go done this year. It’s just a crap shoot with a 2 smoker. 3500 or 6000 or who knows. Tick tock. I demoed an 850 Polaris this spring for 250 miles b 4 deciding to stick with the 4 stoke ( got 9 years riding 4 stroke) and spring checked an ltx le jet steam blue winder. The 850 Polaris was amazing. What a chassis and that patriot motor is potent. Could pull ski to ski with that assault (144” 1.6 cobra) vs my buddies well tuned and dialled in 850 doo 129”. He was impressed with the poo power as well. If you go 2 stroke you decide this. #1 spring check with 4 year warranty. If it goes down it goes down. Warranty fix and off again. #2 at the end of season 3 your trading with a year warranty left on your sled for value and spring checking again and so on. That’s what stopped me, my wallet is not bottomless for sleds. Loved everything about the Polaris sled was awesome fun factor on the trail, and the Indy I would have ordered would shred trail even better then the cross over assault. All depends what you want out of a sled. I wanted to stay with the reliability and top end power. Can wait to get my winder home and out for the first rip as the only pro cross I have ridden much is a ‘16 1100 turbo. Loved the chassis but that power is weird.

 

[XP123]

are they really that bad? I heard they were a good motor (for a 2 stroke)...or just all 2 strokes in general you think are junk?

I don't think they are junk. They are 2 strokes and suffer from 2 stroke reliability issues. I really feel because of the power they get from them along with EPA regulations they are less reliable than ever. I don't remember having seen so many engine failures as I do now. The number of sleds sold today are way down from years past yet engine failure rates on 2 strokes seem to be climbing.

 

[SqueezeER]

Ya I have one year warranty left on my Viper, so I will ride it again next year. Great sled. I ride with a few 850 Doos, no Polaris 8fiddies tho. I'm gonna hop on those 2 strokes to try next year. Its tight and twisty in my area, and I like to play, so we will see if I wanna ride one for a few years. Yamaha dealer is cool where I live, but Polaris sucks. So if I go 2 smoke, it will be a Doo. Eventually I want to get on a Winder. Viper is awesome on certain trails, and has some ditch banging fun in it. I don't have a endless wallet either. I'm not a wrench guy, so the warranty game is suited for me, or pay the dealer.

There are several 850 doo on the trail. Here in my area there have been a few go done this year. It’s just a crap shoot with a 2 smoker. 3500 or 6000 or who knows. Tick tock. I demoed an 850 Polaris this spring for 250 miles b 4 deciding to stick with the 4 stoke ( got 9 years riding 4 stroke) and spring checked an ltx le jet steam blue winder. The 850 Polaris was amazing. What a chassis and that patriot motor is potent. Could pull ski to ski with that assault (144” 1.6 cobra) vs my buddies well tuned and dialled in 850 doo 129”. He was impressed with the poo power as well. If you go 2 stroke you decide this. #1 spring check with 4 year warranty. If it goes down it goes down. Warranty fix and off again. #2 at the end of season 3 your trading with a year warranty left on your sled for value and spring checking again and so on. That’s what stopped me, my wallet is not bottomless for sleds. Loved everything about the Polaris sled was awesome fun factor on the trail, and the Indy I would have ordered would shred trail even better then the cross over assault. All depends what you want out of a sled. I wanted to stay with the reliability and top end power. Can wait to get my winder home and out for the first rip as the only pro cross I have ridden much is a ‘16 1100 turbo. Loved the chassis but that power is weird.

 

[SqueezeER]

I don't think they are junk. They are 2 strokes and suffer from 2 stroke reliability issues. I really feel because of the power they get from them along with EPA regulations they are less reliable than ever. I don't remember having seen so many engine failures as I do now. The number of sleds sold today are way down from years past yet engine failure rates on 2 strokes seem to be climbing.

Do you have data of this? Is there an article? I wish the manufacturers put out how many motors they sold, and how many failures. I feel like a company that would be transparent in the issues in their machines, could go a long way. Especially if they are bragging about their reliability.

 

[Winder_506]

Ya I have one year warranty left on my Viper, so I will ride it again next year. Great sled. I ride with a few 850 Doos, no Polaris 8fiddies tho. I'm gonna hop on those 2 strokes to try next year. Its tight and twisty in my area, and I like to play, so we will see if I wanna ride one for a few years. Yamaha dealer is cool where I live, but Polaris sucks. So if I go 2 smoke, it will be a Doo. Eventually I want to get on a Winder. Viper is awesome on certain trails, and has some ditch banging fun in it. I don't have a endless wallet either. I'm not a wrench guy, so the warranty game is suited for me, or pay the dealer.

I will say that running the rough stuff hard on the poo behind the ski doo. The ski doo front end is no where close to what Polaris has. His front was skipping around like a kid on Christmas Day. The axys was planted and confident. If there is another Polaris dealer close I would try one at least. A 137” Indy XC 850 would absolutely shred your tight trials and get around your doo buddies while doing it. lol. Enjoy what ever you go with.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

My first choice to replace my baby would have been another Winder. I went back and forth for 6 weeks with much frustration. Without a 129 for 2020, the colors would have to be superb, and IMO the gorgeous 2019 SRX turning black was sacreligious! I totalled up the cost several times to panel swap the jetstream blue to get it to my liking. Those prices along with MOD costs to get me back to where I want to be, would certainly add up fast. Stepping down from the big power for a season, would save me 5000 bucks. Certainly nothing to sneeze at.

We researched the 900t last winter hoping to like it. Took us awhile to demo one as people wimped out letting us try theirs, obviously concerned how bad the iTC was. So it took awhile and had to go to a dealer to test ride one. When we finally demo'd the 900t, it became obvious the iTC(drive by wire) throttle was not going to cut it. Being a performance rider who needs instant throttle response, and a true thumb to engine correlation, we both felt the iTC system was just not meant for performance riding. IMO BRP still is building 4s sleds only for their older touring crowd who does not care how the throttle feels. Just read how many guys over there on DT are "fine" with the iTC and "get used to it" and even threads saying its the best sled ever made(that one really made me laugh).

Not taking anything away from DOO 4s engines for their reliability and power that can be made(especially with their 1200 4tec) and certainly the DOO engineering and chassie prowess that the incredible g4 brings to the table. This goes back to the original decision of how to mount their 4s engines into their chassie. With the decision to mount the engine low and upright, along with their 'stacked' clutch design(to allow for the most rider forward chassie) DOO created the problem of where to run their intake track, when the Jshaft had to be placed there. So the 4s doo's have a way way too long intake, with a considerable distance between the TB butterfly and the cylinder. This had been talked about for many yrs(look up '4tec throttle lag' -youtube). Fast forward a few yrs, BRP tries to cure this issue by using DBW and coined their latest acronym iTC(Intelligent Throttle Control). The reason DBW can work so well in performance automobiles is not due to the fact the cable/linkage is removed, its due to the fact the engine and TB design is a true performance design. Meaning the butterfly that moves the air, is as close to the cylinder as possible.

For BRP to try to cure the 'lag' with DBW would never work 100% because of the original problem. It's a well documented poor design, that BRP does not care enough about since they can sell all their performance oriented buyers their cash cow 2s sleds which have instant throttle response and TB's mounted directly to the cylinders. Sorta like ALL YAMAHA 4s engines have! Yes, this is why every YAM 4s sled has instant throttle response like a 2s has. And no 4s DOO has ever had this perf feel unfortunately. Most the DOO 4s crowd are touring crowd and so BRP obviously must feel they have covered all bases with their lineup.

Which leads to YAM owners....most guys used to YAM 4s power delivery will have a hard time going to a doo 4s. Sure iTC helps to mask the problem, using sport mode will magnify your thumb movement and with that it becomes super snappy, but the issue is it then also becomes impossible to modulate and makes for a terrible ON/OFF feel in which riding in any type of rough trails is a task, and must be lowered to standard mode, bringing back the lag feel. I for one don't want to compromise on the very reason I ride, "fun factor".

IMO Reliability is not a good argument for 'putting up with' iTC and the terrible feel of every moment of every mile. I would rather wrench my sled every week and have a super perfect sled when riding! The Winder is that sled. Also I would rather own a 850 doo 2s which even though I may blow it up, is a ton of fun to ride. Perfect throttle and instant response snap, and will save me some greenbacks while waiting for the next Winders to be released in 2021. Maybe YAM will even make them more reliable and still fingers crossed for the RTX to make a come back.

The DT guys will certainly come over here and feel the need to defend their "best sled I ever owned" 900t and continue to bash the Winder with its reliability history.....and longtime guys who I have helped and lent tools to will become enemies simply due to my opinion....But it's just MY opinion, one guys decision to want a performance feeling sled, the world is not falling and you touring guys who are fine with the iTC should not worry, be happy and enjoy.

I find that we have very little options once you own a Winder. Either step down from the big power for a season and go 2s, or even step down abit more and go Viper(it has best throttle response of all 4s now) but there really is no other choice IMO since the 900t would need a totally new intake and normal throttle to ever feel correct. Posts about BRP fixing this issue with software is never gonna cure this problem.

Since I swap all the time with buds XRS's(850 and 600) and always like the ultra light feel in the rough stuff, better MPG then my Winder and so far good belt life, and these guy engines have held together so far, I felt this was the safe choice for me to have a simple season of riding and step back from the modding train for a season. Knowing me, mine will probably blow up and it will go in for warranty like my last 2s, but IMO that is a better problem to have then the iTC.

Will be back to my FAVE 998 modding before you know it gang. YAM please build me a blue 129 srx! lol

Dan

 

[Winder_506]

My first choice to replace my baby would have been another Winder. I went back and forth for 6 weeks with much frustration. Without a 129 for 2020, the colors would have to be superb, and IMO the gorgeous 2019 SRX turning black was sacreligious! I totalled up the cost several times to panel swap the jetstream blue to get it to my liking. Those prices along with MOD costs to get me back to where I want to be, would certainly add up fast. Stepping down from the big power for a season, would save me 5000 bucks. Certainly nothing to sneeze at.

We researched the 900t last winter hoping to like it. Took us awhile to demo one as people wimped out letting us try theirs, obviously concerned how bad the iTC was. So it took awhile and had to go to a dealer to test ride one. When we finally demo'd the 900t, it became obvious the iTC(drive by wire) throttle was not going to cut it. Being a performance rider who needs instant throttle response, and a true thumb to engine correlation, we both felt the iTC system was just not meant for performance riding. IMO BRP still is building 4s sleds only for their older touring crowd who does not care how the throttle feels. Just read how many guys over there on DT are "fine" with the iTC and "get used to it" and even threads saying its the best sled ever made(that one really made me laugh).

Not taking anything away from DOO 4s engines for their reliability and power that can be made(especially with their 1200 4tec) and certainly the DOO engineering and chassie prowess that the incredible g4 brings to the table. This goes back to the original decision of how to mount their 4s engines into their chassie. With the decision to mount the engine low and upright, along with their 'stacked' clutch design(to allow for the most rider forward chassie) DOO created the problem of where to run their intake track, when the Jshaft had to be placed there. So the 4s doo's have a way way too long intake, with a considerable distance between the TB butterfly and the cylinder. This had been talked about for many yrs(look up '4tec throttle lag' -youtube). Fast forward a few yrs, BRP tries to cure this issue by using DBW and coined their latest acronym iTC(Intelligent Throttle Control). The reason DBW can work so well in performance automobiles is not due to the fact the cable/linkage is removed, its due to the fact the engine and TB design is a true performance design. Meaning the butterfly that moves the air, is as close to the cylinder as possible.

For BRP to try to cure the 'lag' with DBW would never work 100% because of the original problem. It's a well documented poor design, that BRP does not care enough about since they can sell all their performance oriented buyers their cash cow 2s sleds which have instant throttle response and TB's mounted directly to the cylinders. Sorta like ALL YAMAHA 4s engines have! Yes, this is why every YAM 4s sled has instant throttle response like a 2s has. And no 4s DOO has ever had this perf feel unfortunately. Most the DOO 4s crowd are touring crowd and so BRP obviously must feel they have covered all bases with their lineup.

Which leads to YAM owners....most guys used to YAM 4s power delivery will have a hard time going to a doo 4s. Sure iTC helps to mask the problem, using sport mode will magnify your thumb movement and with that it becomes super snappy, but the issue is it then also becomes impossible to modulate and makes for a terrible ON/OFF feel in which riding in any type of rough trails is a task, and must be lowered to standard mode, bringing back the lag feel. I for one don't want to compromise on the very reason I ride, "fun factor".

IMO Reliability is not a good argument for 'putting up with' iTC and the terrible feel of every moment of every mile. I would rather wrench my sled every week and have a super perfect sled when riding! The Winder is that sled. Also I would rather own a 850 doo 2s which even though I may blow it up, is a ton of fun to ride. Perfect throttle and instant response snap, and will save me some greenbacks while waiting for the next Winders to be released in 2021. Maybe YAM will even make them more reliable and still fingers crossed for the RTX to make a come back.

The DT guys will certainly come over here and feel the need to defend their "best sled I ever owned" 900t and continue to bash the Winder with its reliability history.....and longtime guys who I have helped and lent tools to will become enemies simply due to my opinion....But it's just MY opinion, one guys decision to want a performance feeling sled, the world is not falling and you touring guys who are fine with the iTC should not worry, be happy and enjoy.

I find that we have very little options once you own a Winder. Either step down from the big power for a season and go 2s, or even step down abit more and go Viper(it has best throttle response of all 4s now) but there really is no other choice IMO since the 900t would need a totally new intake and normal throttle to ever feel correct.

Since I swap all the time with buds XRS's(850 and 600) and always like the ultra light feel in the rough stuff, better MPG then my Winder and so far good belt life, and these guy engines have held together so far, I felt this was the safe choice for me to have a simple season of riding and step back from the modding train for a season. Knowing me mine will probably blow up and it will go in for warranty like my last 2s, but IMO that is a better problem to have then the iTC.

Will be back to my FAVE 998 modding before you know it gang. YAM please build me a blue 129 srx! lol

Dan

After our talk about 2 vs 4 stroke I am super surprised to hear your going 850 doo. The ones here are belt eaters. Big time. I’m talking 5+ belts this season for one guy and 2-3 for the others. the last one knocked the clutch tools out of the belt cover and sucked them into the clutch and destroyed both. No warranty. Sled is a 2019 129” x spring checked. And there are as many blown up as are still running some went down at 3500 one at 4000 and some still running at 5500. Total crap shoot on the engine life. But good luck dan on the doo.

 

[Fleecer]

Thank you for the well informed answer. You are/were an asset to this forum and like many here I will miss your in depth posts.

In the end, it is your hard earned dollar being spent and I can certainly understand your reasoning and justification. Congrats on your new purchase and best of luck!!

 

[74Nitro]

My first choice to replace my baby would have been another Winder. I went back and forth for 6 weeks with much frustration. Without a 129 for 2020, the colors would have to be superb, and IMO the gorgeous 2019 SRX turning black was sacreligious! I totalled up the cost several times to panel swap the jetstream blue to get it to my liking. Those prices along with MOD costs to get me back to where I want to be, would certainly add up fast. Stepping down from the big power for a season, would save me 5000 bucks. Certainly nothing to sneeze at.

We researched the 900t last winter hoping to like it. Took us awhile to demo one as people wimped out letting us try theirs, obviously concerned how bad the iTC was. So it took awhile and had to go to a dealer to test ride one. When we finally demo'd the 900t, it became obvious the iTC(drive by wire) throttle was not going to cut it. Being a performance rider who needs instant throttle response, and a true thumb to engine correlation, we both felt the iTC system was just not meant for performance riding. IMO BRP still is building 4s sleds only for their older touring crowd who does not care how the throttle feels. Just read how many guys over there on DT are "fine" with the iTC and "get used to it" and even threads saying its the best sled ever made(that one really made me laugh).

Not taking anything away from DOO 4s engines for their reliability and power that can be made(especially with their 1200 4tec) and certainly the DOO engineering and chassie prowess that the incredible g4 brings to the table. This goes back to the original decision of how to mount their 4s engines into their chassie. With the decision to mount the engine low and upright, along with their 'stacked' clutch design(to allow for the most rider forward chassie) DOO created the problem of where to run their intake track, when the Jshaft had to be placed there. So the 4s doo's have a way way too long intake, with a considerable distance between the TB butterfly and the cylinder. This had been talked about for many yrs(look up '4tec throttle lag' -youtube). Fast forward a few yrs, BRP tries to cure this issue by using DBW and coined their latest acronym iTC(Intelligent Throttle Control). The reason DBW can work so well in performance automobiles is not due to the fact the cable/linkage is removed, its due to the fact the engine and TB design is a true performance design. Meaning the butterfly that moves the air, is as close to the cylinder as possible.

For BRP to try to cure the 'lag' with DBW would never work 100% because of the original problem. It's a well documented poor design, that BRP does not care enough about since they can sell all their performance oriented buyers their cash cow 2s sleds which have instant throttle response and TB's mounted directly to the cylinders. Sorta like ALL YAMAHA 4s engines have! Yes, this is why every YAM 4s sled has instant throttle response like a 2s has. And no 4s DOO has ever had this perf feel unfortunately. Most the DOO 4s crowd are touring crowd and so BRP obviously must feel they have covered all bases with their lineup.

Which leads to YAM owners....most guys used to YAM 4s power delivery will have a hard time going to a doo 4s. Sure iTC helps to mask the problem, using sport mode will magnify your thumb movement and with that it becomes super snappy, but the issue is it then also becomes impossible to modulate and makes for a terrible ON/OFF feel in which riding in any type of rough trails is a task, and must be lowered to standard mode, bringing back the lag feel. I for one don't want to compromise on the very reason I ride, "fun factor".

IMO Reliability is not a good argument for 'putting up with' iTC and the terrible feel of every moment of every mile. I would rather wrench my sled every week and have a super perfect sled when riding! The Winder is that sled. Also I would rather own a 850 doo 2s which even though I may blow it up, is a ton of fun to ride. Perfect throttle and instant response snap, and will save me some greenbacks while waiting for the next Winders to be released in 2021. Maybe YAM will even make them more reliable and still fingers crossed for the RTX to make a come back.

The DT guys will certainly come over here and feel the need to defend their "best sled I ever owned" 900t and continue to bash the Winder with its reliability history.....and longtime guys who I have helped and lent tools to will become enemies simply due to my opinion....But it's just MY opinion, one guys decision to want a performance feeling sled, the world is not falling and you touring guys who are fine with the iTC should not worry, be happy and enjoy.

I find that we have very little options once you own a Winder. Either step down from the big power for a season and go 2s, or even step down abit more and go Viper(it has best throttle response of all 4s now) but there really is no other choice IMO since the 900t would need a totally new intake and normal throttle to ever feel correct. Posts about BRP fixing this issue with software is never gonna cure this problem.

Since I swap all the time with buds XRS's(850 and 600) and always like the ultra light feel in the rough stuff, better MPG then my Winder and so far good belt life, and these guy engines have held together so far, I felt this was the safe choice for me to have a simple season of riding and step back from the modding train for a season. Knowing me, mine will probably blow up and it will go in for warranty like my last 2s, but IMO that is a better problem to have then the iTC.

Will be back to my FAVE 998 modding before you know it gang. YAM please build me a blue 129 srx! lol

Dan

Excellent post Dan. You should copy and paste that under the Supertrax article for the 900T, as I feel those fellas don't have as good a handle on the issue, but you clearly do!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Thank you for the well informed answer. You are/were an asset to this forum and like many here I will miss your in depth posts.

In the end, it is your hard earned dollar being spent and I can certainly understand your reasoning and justification. Congrats on your new purchase and best of luck!!

100% back at ya brother....I wont be going anywhere, that 998 got my heart and soul. 850 will be boring as I cant even mod it! lol

Im looking at this like taking a year off from an addiction....lol

I surely wont want to keep ANY 2S past a season or two, and always MUST have warranty with the smokers.

It really is too bad we don't have other choices beyond the Winder. I really would like to see the Viper get punched up to 150hp and allow us another NA choice. The almighty Apex engine now gone from the lineup really leaves a void for 4s lovers.

Being someone who trades up typically every 2 seasons, the Winder cost factor does not lend to a smart choice. High cost means you need to typically keep these sleds longer to not lose your azz......

What I think is interesting is my riding bud bought a 2020 Cat RR 800, so Im rather excited to see how that new engine works along with new front end. And feel what our procross chassie would feel like 80 to 100lbs lighter. When we found out the 2s Cats have RER(not mechanical) reverse he decided to give it a try, as the chaincase will have the basic stripped down setup of old days.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Excellent post Dan. You should copy and paste that under the Supertrax article for the 900T, as I feel those fellas don't have as good a handle on the issue, but you clearly do!

Thanks buddy....But it was actually the Lester brothers who called DOO out on this many yrs ago. Its alot diff now then it was Pre-iTC but still overall is an issue for many guys. We find the guys who have owned iTC many seasons to not be concerned, while guys who swap often notice it instantly. Its just plain not right.

 

[ClutchMaster]

My first choice to replace my baby would have been another Winder. I went back and forth for 6 weeks with much frustration. Without a 129 for 2020, the colors would have to be superb, and IMO the gorgeous 2019 SRX turning black was sacreligious! I totalled up the cost several times to panel swap the jetstream blue to get it to my liking. Those prices along with MOD costs to get me back to where I want to be, would certainly add up fast. Stepping down from the big power for a season, would save me 5000 bucks. Certainly nothing to sneeze at.

We researched the 900t last winter hoping to like it. Took us awhile to demo one as people wimped out letting us try theirs, obviously concerned how bad the iTC was. So it took awhile and had to go to a dealer to test ride one. When we finally demo'd the 900t, it became obvious the iTC(drive by wire) throttle was not going to cut it. Being a performance rider who needs instant throttle response, and a true thumb to engine correlation, we both felt the iTC system was just not meant for performance riding. IMO BRP still is building 4s sleds only for their older touring crowd who does not care how the throttle feels. Just read how many guys over there on DT are "fine" with the iTC and "get used to it" and even threads saying its the best sled ever made(that one really made me laugh).

Not taking anything away from DOO 4s engines for their reliability and power that can be made(especially with their 1200 4tec) and certainly the DOO engineering and chassie prowess that the incredible g4 brings to the table. This goes back to the original decision of how to mount their 4s engines into their chassie. With the decision to mount the engine low and upright, along with their 'stacked' clutch design(to allow for the most rider forward chassie) DOO created the problem of where to run their intake track, when the Jshaft had to be placed there. So the 4s doo's have a way way too long intake, with a considerable distance between the TB butterfly and the cylinder. This had been talked about for many yrs(look up '4tec throttle lag' -youtube). Fast forward a few yrs, BRP tries to cure this issue by using DBW and coined their latest acronym iTC(Intelligent Throttle Control). The reason DBW can work so well in performance automobiles is not due to the fact the cable/linkage is removed, its due to the fact the engine and TB design is a true performance design. Meaning the butterfly that moves the air, is as close to the cylinder as possible.

For BRP to try to cure the 'lag' with DBW would never work 100% because of the original problem. It's a well documented poor design, that BRP does not care enough about since they can sell all their performance oriented buyers their cash cow 2s sleds which have instant throttle response and TB's mounted directly to the cylinders. Sorta like ALL YAMAHA 4s engines have! Yes, this is why every YAM 4s sled has instant throttle response like a 2s has. And no 4s DOO has ever had this perf feel unfortunately. Most the DOO 4s crowd are touring crowd and so BRP obviously must feel they have covered all bases with their lineup.

Which leads to YAM owners....most guys used to YAM 4s power delivery will have a hard time going to a doo 4s. Sure iTC helps to mask the problem, using sport mode will magnify your thumb movement and with that it becomes super snappy, but the issue is it then also becomes impossible to modulate and makes for a terrible ON/OFF feel in which riding in any type of rough trails is a task, and must be lowered to standard mode, bringing back the lag feel. I for one don't want to compromise on the very reason I ride, "fun factor".

IMO Reliability is not a good argument for 'putting up with' iTC and the terrible feel of every moment of every mile. I would rather wrench my sled every week and have a super perfect sled when riding! The Winder is that sled. Also I would rather own a 850 doo 2s which even though I may blow it up, is a ton of fun to ride. Perfect throttle and instant response snap, and will save me some greenbacks while waiting for the next Winders to be released in 2021. Maybe YAM will even make them more reliable and still fingers crossed for the RTX to make a come back.

The DT guys will certainly come over here and feel the need to defend their "best sled I ever owned" 900t and continue to bash the Winder with its reliability history.....and longtime guys who I have helped and lent tools to will become enemies simply due to my opinion....But it's just MY opinion, one guys decision to want a performance feeling sled, the world is not falling and you touring guys who are fine with the iTC should not worry, be happy and enjoy.

I find that we have very little options once you own a Winder. Either step down from the big power for a season and go 2s, or even step down abit more and go Viper(it has best throttle response of all 4s now) but there really is no other choice IMO since the 900t would need a totally new intake and normal throttle to ever feel correct. Posts about BRP fixing this issue with software is never gonna cure this problem.

Since I swap all the time with buds XRS's(850 and 600) and always like the ultra light feel in the rough stuff, better MPG then my Winder and so far good belt life, and these guy engines have held together so far, I felt this was the safe choice for me to have a simple season of riding and step back from the modding train for a season. Knowing me, mine will probably blow up and it will go in for warranty like my last 2s, but IMO that is a better problem to have then the iTC.

Will be back to my FAVE 998 modding before you know it gang. YAM please build me a blue 129 srx! lol

Dan

Well there you have it folks!
Danno is jumping ship!
Dan I’m not sure what you do for work, but I think you should consider running for political office!
Seriously tho I wish you the best with your decision and whatever makes you happy.
Cheers, CM