Getting rid of the roll over valve

[1nc 2000]

So if it goes back into the valve cover, wouldnt the pressure just circulate as pistons go up/down?

Your thinking it builds up without an outlet somewhere correct?

You'll blow the seals out of the motor then.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Yes it's building up in the tank and when that roll over valve freezes up the pressure just blows the silicone out.

LOL, yes this has been mentioned about 50 times...

I just wondered if its connected to the valve cover breather, would the pressure not go around circulating thru engine.

 

[fatchance]

My concern is the fact that there is water present in all this so dumping it back through the motor can't be a good thing. I mean if it's documented that that line has been full of ice, I wouldn't go that route. I'm assuming that is part of the function of the valve in the first place it must act as a separator to some extent only allowing burps of pressure to bypass

 

[ROCKERDAN]

You'll blow the seals out of the motor then.

Ok this is what I was wondering....so the pressure within the oil system needs to have a release, and currently its done thru the valve and intake tract.

 

[fatchance]

I know this has been said 50 times, but i'd be willing to bet that stupid silicone seal goes long before the seals in the motor.

 

[Soldier'spapa]

So if it goes back into the valve cover, wouldnt the pressure just circulate as pistons go up/down?

Your thinking it builds up without an outlet somewhere correct?

Every engine (gas or diesel) builds pressure from combustion blowing past the piston rings that must be relieved or seals and gaskets blow out. Years ago this pressure was simply released to the atmosphere but that changed as emission regs required "closed crankcase venting". Now all cars and trucks (even my off road equipment) are required by law to recirculate the blow-by back to the intake tract. A huge drawback to this is that an oily tary gummy mess builds throughout the entire intake resulting in performance loss. In the Sidewinders case this means the turbo, charge tubes, intercooler, BOV, intake, throttle bodies and intake valves get covered with gunk.

Mikes setup while effective reverts back to 1960's emissions practices. Do as you wish... for now I'm using Mikes system.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I know this has been said 50 times, but i'd be willing to bet that stupid silicone seal goes long before the seals in the motor.

I hear ya.....hate this crap.

So I assume last season, since this was not really talked about much....the ultra cold temps are why we are hearing this more now?

I know lots talked about oil leaking end of season, but I thought they were all assuming it was chaincase.....so were all those the oil tank seal I wonder?

I hope Yam brings a proper gasket and a valve that works properly....or something!

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Every engine (gas or diesel) builds pressure from combustion blowing past the piston rings that must be relieved or seals and gaskets blow out. Years ago this pressure was simply released to the atmosphere but that changed as emission regs required "closed crankcase venting". Now all cars and trucks (even my off road equipment) are required by law to recirculate the blow-by back to the intake tract.

Mikes setup while effective reverts back to 1960's emissions practices. Do as you wish... for now I'm using Mikes system.

Thanks Appreciate the info....

What about the breather from valve cover to filter intake/CAI area? I know that is open, so does that just more or less breath in as its above the valves?

thanks
Dan

 

[fatchance]

Yes, probly the reason it only happened a couple times last year due to lack of cold. And Yam better do something about this soon because the way this cold is hanging on who knows how many times this will happen?

 

[XP123]

I hear ya.....hate this crap.

So I assume last season, since this was not really talked about much....the ultra cold temps are why we are hearing this more now?

I know lots talked about oil leaking end of season, but I thought they were all assuming it was chaincase.....so were all those the oil tank seal I wonder?

I hope Yam brings a proper gasket and a valve that works properly....or something!

Dan

I agree Dan! Give us a proper tank seal and valve. All this internet engineering is getting out of hand. If we all do this mod then Yamaha will come out with nothing to fix the real problem. I want to find out about this tank recall before I do anything.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Yes, probly the reason it only happened a couple times last year due to lack of cold. And Yam better do something about this soon because the way this cold is hanging on who knows how many times this will happen?

cold will be gone for most of us in another few days.....Milder thaw temps for a few weeks, probably back to crappy winter as usual. Grrrr

 

[Chris Rose]

cold will be gone for most of us in another few days.....Milder thaw temps for a few weeks, probably back to crappy winter as usual. Grrrr

Just installed the loop hose this morning and noticed a fair amount of water /oil in the hoses and intake. Sure don't want that going in the engine. Haven't had a problem before but why take a chance when the fix is so easy.

 

[Soldier'spapa]

I agree Dan! Give us a proper tank seal and valve. All this internet engineering is getting out of hand. If we all do this mod then Yamaha will come out with nothing to fix the real problem. I want to find out about this tank recall before I do anything.

I'm not waiting on Yammy risking the loss of riding time. Like most, my riding time is limited so I will take matters into my own hands and prevent a possible breakdown by utilizing Mikes fix.

 

[SideHogger]

Are the Cat guys having same issue? I assume.

 

[KnappAttack]

So going this route would the only drawback be the fact that in the event of a rollover oil will dump into the intake? Which may happen with the stock setup anyway if the sled continued to run?

That is correct.

Also correct.

I am going to copy Mike on this setup and re-evaluate when/if Yamaha comes up with a fix.

I will be keeping an eye on the new vent tube on the coldest of days. Water vapor may freeze on the inside of the tube and eventually block off the vent allowing pressure to build again. The breath vents on my Doo modular helmet freeze closed on occasion when its reel cold. Not sure if this is a concern with Mikes design (5/8" tube) but thought I'd throw it out there...

Thanks Mike for looking into this and sharing your design!

The air and vapor coming out of the tube is no different than I had with the Doo 1200 and I have never had it freeze up ever as there is plenty of heated air going thru it, but yes that is a concern I agree. One option is to put a slit in the tube up higher, Ski-Doo does this on the stock 1200's and if I remember correctly, I think the Apex have a slit cut into the tube as well in case it freezes on the end of the tube. Just a 1" slit cut into the tube would give it a relief valve so to speak.

What I have found in the real world is the air coming from the tube is heated and poses no icing concerns that I have seen on the 1200 Doos, and in reality the YamaCat should be even warmer in this department with the added exhaust and oil tank heat, hence the reason I used the reflective heat foil tape on it.

The volume of air coming out of it is no different that I've seen from the 1200 Doo, I'm confident that the Rotax vent "rollover" valve will work fine as well. The Doo uses the same oil scavenge pump design as the Yamaha does, but I'm not too concerned running straight thru without a valve for now. The Suzuki never had any type of valve from the factor at all either.