Mach Z not stock king of the lake.

[Fleecer]

I'll bet the Doo 900R is a fantastic sled from top to bottom. It likely checks all the right boxes. Under normal circumstances, I believe the top speed wouldn't be a big deal to most.

However, Doo had to offer in a 1 year only, Mach Z package. They emphasized that this was a lake racer and charged a premium for it. The fact that it is the slowest of all 900r variants is a slap in the face to those who bought them.

I follow all the threads on Dootalk because I'm interested in the 900r to replace my Sidewinder. It will be interesting to see how Doo handles the dissatisfied customers. It is looking like they are running 2-3lbs under the advertised boost levels from Doo.

Hence, the reason they only offered the Mach Z one year. Once out on the trail and the truth be told, Ski Doo knew there would be no way they could sucker anyone into paying ridiculous money for this turd.

 

[SumpBuster]

Hence, the reason they only offered the Mach Z one year. Once out on the trail and the truth be told, Ski Doo knew there would be no way they could sucker anyone into paying ridiculous money for this turd.

Last real Mach z's,imo.

 

[Apex2006]

I have both and have run more than 300 miles on the new Mach-Z. It is overall a fast great trail sled, and the Smart Shocks are the real deal. But as far as flat out racing, the Sidewinders and Thunder Cats run away from it. BTW, long pull WOT with the Mach on hardpacked lake GPS all I could get was 110MPH max!

 

[SledFreak]

Ya, I was a DOO guy for years. Never owned a Mach, but had a Mach 1 and a ton of 670's and my last 2 stroke was an 800. Then I bought 2, 1200's and then sold the last one in 2014. I still may go back if they brought the power and handling back. The G4 is ugly for one. Up to 2021 model year, the G4's handle like crap, with heavy steering. I am waiting to get a chance to drive a new one 2022, but have not yet. But, if I cant even tune it a little, then I doubt I will. The 998 and the procross chassis, rules in the trail!!!

 

[Doowithblue]

For years all i heard from the yella undies was "the market is too small for another mach z" suddenly 99percent of etec owners traded for one. And completely sold out at that.

 

[snowbeast]

Speaking of dream meters, remember the Apex? Buddy of mine told me he could do 136 mph. Got him to go to local river on ice to run my Firecat at the time. Well, if his Apex was doing 136, my Firecat must have been doing 150!!! True story!! ( BTW, Firecat 118 on gps)

Well all i can say,he must of had a slow apex,almost all of my ape,s have exceeded 118 gps.

 

[Crossfire12]

Firecats we’re fast for a 700

 

[journeyman]

Well all i can say,he must of had a slow apex,almost all of my ape,s have exceeded 118 gps.

Mine is naturally aspirated with Proline clutching, Ripsaw II track and some re-machining to the primary and it is a beast for it’s HP range. I would put it up against any stock 136 Apex on the snow and wager some cash against another like sled. Mine has hit that on GPS too with no issues.

Sorry off topic….

 

[SideHogger]

Well all i can say,he must of had a slow apex,almost all of my ape,s have exceeded 118 gps.

I never said slow. Just NOT 136 mph fast!

 

[earthling]

Back to the Mach Z. Just looking through the wild west of the dootalk forums is interesting. There is a lot of energy going into chasing clutching due to low RPMs at WOT but it feels to me like the sled just lacks gearing and boost (numbers are also low). Feels more like a problem with the tune and gearing as even if they can hit max rpm its not going to go *that* much faster given its current gears. Am I missing something?

 

[SledFreak]

These guys are chasing their tales. How do you clutch a sled for optimum performance when it is clearly NOT making enough power, based on the 14-16psi that you are seeing. Most are at 14psi.

 

[journeyman]

Back to the Mach Z. Just looking through the wild west of the dootalk forums is interesting. There is a lot of energy going into chasing clutching due to low RPMs at WOT but it feels to me like the sled just lacks gearing and boost (numbers are also low). Feels more like a problem with the tune and gearing as even if they can hit max rpm its not going to go *that* much faster given its current gears. Am I missing something?

Well I sure would be ticked if I spent that kind of $$ on a Mach then had to roll out another $2700 for an aftermarket ECU just to throw a tune at it. By the time you do that, clutching and whatever else it takes think how much you have into it to possibly beat a stock Yama/Cat….?

 

[earthling]

Agreed.

Doo should have marketed the MachZ as king of the trails. Not saying it is, but at least that would put performance into a matter of opinion, not something as easily measurable as top end. To market it as 'first across the lake' is a bit of a stretch considering it is already starting with a displacement deficit. The fact that they all but called it king of the lakes is going to upset a lot of folks that shelled out significantly more money for a one off machine that will struggle to reach that goal without significantly more investment.

Less displacement
Weight advantage of 30 lbs (or whatever it is) won't really matter for top end (will matter for short bursts and corner to corner)
Lack of access to tune (locked ECU) limits innovation and understanding
I do not understand the choice in weight transfer (skis in the air don't help anything but pure fun factor)

I have nothing against the brand and no horse in the race I in fact think it would be beneficial for them to set the bar higher but it just seems silly to chase a result that on paper looks to be purely marketing speak. Someone in engineering or testing was probably shaking their head the entire time over the foreseeable problems the marketing team would create. Who knows, maybe doo will come up with their own tune to address the existing issues but there ain't no replacement for displacement.

 

[journeyman]

No horse in this either, I grew up as a kid on Ski-Doo then my whole family switched to Yamaha’s in the early 80’s right after I was out of HS.

But I was as skeptical as Knapp was for the fact the 900 motor in non-turbo trim puts out about 90 HP. The 998 pre-turbo is 20-30 HP more than that and as said 100 more cc’s. Doesn’t take much thought there this wasn’t gonna be an apples to apples challenge for the SW/TCat.

I also agree with MK that the 1200 with a turbo would have been a whole different level but then again…it’s a 1200, 200 cc’s more than the Yamaha motor.

Well at least we have something to talk about.

 

[KnappAttack]

No horse in this either, I grew up as a kid on Ski-Doo then my whole family switched to Yamaha’s in the early 80’s right after I was out of HS.

But I was as skeptical as Knapp was for the fact the 900 motor in non-turbo trim puts out about 90 HP. The 998 pre-turbo is 20-30 HP more than that and as said 100 more cc’s. Doesn’t take much thought there this wasn’t gonna be an apples to apples challenge for the SW/TCat.

I also agree with MK that the 1200 with a turbo would have been a whole different level but then again…it’s a 1200, 200 cc’s more than the Yamaha motor.

Well at least we have something to talk about.

Troy, the 1200 is actually a 1170cc engine, but still the strongest snowmobile engine ever built to accept a turbo too it un-opened. It could exceed 500HP without ever pulling the head off of it! Just install the proper turbo and components and go. No head studs, no low compression pistons, no rods.

Stock engine, right of the machine as it come from Doo. think about that over 500HP, next best was the older Apex or the old RX-1. 440HP on stock internals. Just make sure they didn't detonate. That 1200 was the most stout engine ever produced to date.

The best engine to accept HUGE boost with heavier internals is of course, the 1100 Suzuki twin, couldn't take much abuse however with it stock internals, but with proper internals installed they exceed 70 even 80 lbs of boost now.

The 998 is actually not that great of an engine all things considered. What it is know for, is it ability to be boosted on pump gas at a reasonable cost.

The 1200 SkiDoo is king of pump gas horsepower to this day using a Motec ignition system. I know they were at around 380HP a few years ago, and I believe now it may be over 400HP I've heard. And for the cost it takes to get the 900R up in power to 300HP you may just as well do up a 1200 at that point as it would be less costly and more reliable. Still the best bang for the buck is the 998 Yama/Cat, but nothing beats the sweet swiss-watch four-cylinder Apex engine with boost, it's just in the wrong chassis is all.

Yamaha should partner with Cat to get a couple of models of that Apex back into production WITH and WITHOUT a turbo! Nothing better than that cushioned under-driven primary output shaft for belt and clutch life! Imagine having a 280HP turbo stock and a 200HP machinery to pick from!