Mach Z not stock king of the lake.

[F7 Racer]

Was watching SnowTrax today, the Lesters were testing the Stock 900R and the Thunder cat on the lake for top speed, end result Tcat 105mph, 900R 102MPH, this was after numerous runs switching up riders using gps, man that is a HUGE difference in speed considering the T cat had more Stock HP, I can see now why the Winder guy's just cut up the Doo's new 900 Turbo.

They were actually 7mph difference on the first run and they kept going until the Do finally turned a decent speed.

 

[earthling]

Its often difficult to translate from minor differences in MPH to relatable real world results. Even a few mph is a lot. For most people they can relate more easily to how long they hold the go trigger to the bar. Its easy in your head to say, if we both pin it and hold it for n number of seconds, what is the difference. I built this little calculator (yes I am that bored) that uses the speeds from the lester testing. At 3MPH difference in terminal velocity the below chart gives you a feel for how big the gap is between the sleds relative to time. For instance if you both hit terminal velocity crossing the lake and just hold it there for 9 seconds, you can look up the 9 seconds line and see that there is ~4 sled lengths of difference. In drag race terms, that isn't very close. After 15 seconds you are separated by more than a bus and a half worth of distance. More importantly in about 2 seconds you are behind by a sled length and the faster sled is distinctly pulling away.

3Mph difference in speed table

5Mph difference in speed table. At 5MPH difference in terminal velocity you are now 6.6 sled lengths behind in 9 seconds and if you keep going for 15 seconds you are at 2.75 bus lengths behind

Does it really matter.. no, but there are real world differences in even a relatively short amount of time. You are going to know in less than a second at terminal velocity that the race is over. It only matters if racing matters *to you*, otherwise all of these machines are more than capable of creating face distorting smiles.

 

[SumpBuster]

Its often difficult to translate from minor differences in MPH to relatable real world results. Even a few mph is a lot. For most people they can relate more easily to how long they hold the go trigger to the bar. Its easy in your head to say, if we both pin it and hold it for n number of seconds, what is the difference. I built this little calculator (yes I am that bored) that uses the speeds from the lester testing. At 3MPH difference in terminal velocity the below chart gives you a feel for how big the gap is between the sleds relative to time. For instance if you both hit terminal velocity crossing the lake and just hold it there for 9 seconds, you can look up the 9 seconds line and see that there is ~4 sled lengths of difference. In drag race terms, that isn't very close. After 15 seconds you are separated by more than a bus and a half worth of distance. More importantly in about 2 seconds you are behind by a sled length and the faster sled is distinctly pulling away.

3Mph difference in speed table
View attachment 167008

5Mph difference in speed table. At 5MPH difference in terminal velocity you are now 6.6 sled lengths behind in 9 seconds and if you keep going for 15 seconds you are at 2.75 bus lengths behind

View attachment 167009

Does it really matter.. no, but there are real world differences in even a relatively short amount of time. You are going to know in less than a second at terminal velocity that the race is over. It only matters if racing matters *to you*, otherwise all of these machines are more than capable of creating face distorting smiles.

This is pretty cool! Love it!!
Mine is simpler. When the sidewinders are 6 mph faster, in an hour, thats 6 miles. For example, flying at 31,000 feet, you look down and say to the wife, 'look dear, is that that Bombardier Challenger Mack z down there trying to take off?'

 

[Motorhead]

When you lose a race after bragging about your sled. Excuses follow!!
Yep, that’s what the Mack did. Still a loss, no matter by how many MPH or lengths!

 

[XP123]

not making it up, I often see Doo's with side panels open, certainly its because the odds of so many following the heard with these machines they are bound to have issues that is very visible at intersections where allot of sleds pull over to check signs and directions. Also, I do not fly through corners at intersections, that wouldn't be safe for me or others on the trails. The blur is from what's in the corner of my eyes as I'm paying attention to what's ahead not what is so much on the side and slightly past...a broke down Doo. hope this explains my earlier comment...seemed pretty straight forward to me the first time though...try expanding your mind a bit and get the gist of what's someones trying to say...it's not just me sending you a message, it's a few other guys on here too. with text its a challenge to understand tone and tenor of what's someones trying to convey...let me make it plain...this is a Yamaha site, trying to convince us our sleds suck might not go over too well. Joe

Show me where I ever said the Sidewinder sucked Joe. I will say it one more time for those who have reading comprehension issues. I loved my Sidewinder and enjoyed every mile I rode it. I took it on a 7 day trip up in the Gaspe that turned out to be the best trip ever and a lot of that had to do with my Sidewinder. The Sidewinder is one of the fastest, best handling sleds I ever owned and I still feel that way.
Just because I now own a SkiDoo doesn't change the way I felt about my Winder. My Winder purchase was one of my most exciting sled purchases ever and I have zero regrets.

 

[Jvji24]

This is an interesting read. What’s wrong with either? I mean you can like what you like and really that’s what it is. I drive a gmc and I wouldn’t own a Chevy.
I am sure there are some good running machs. The stock one I rode was not impressive but I also just jumped on it rode it a bit and jumped off. No adjustment. They are more up to date on tech than cat/yami for sure! To be honest there wasn’t much excitement on the zr9000 either until you start to tune it. That’s my opinion though and others say they are too fast stock.
Can the 998 make more power than the skidoo? Absolutely. Can you make the mach respectable? I assume so but maybe it costs more to do? Some people don’t care about that either while others do.
A 998 doesn’t have the hp potential of a 1100 zuke or 4 cylinder Yamaha either so idk? We get what we get and deal with it.
Btw. Cat didn’t do crap today for 23 unless you like blasts

Reaffirms my jumping ship in my mind and not waiting around anymore
Carry on

 

[Simplespeed]

This is an interesting read. What’s wrong with either? I mean you can like what you like and really that’s what it is. I drive a gmc and I wouldn’t own a Chevy.
I am sure there are some good running machs. The stock one I rode was not impressive but I also just jumped on it rode it a bit and jumped off. No adjustment. They are more up to date on tech than cat/yami for sure! To be honest there wasn’t much excitement on the zr9000 either until you start to tune it. That’s my opinion though and others say they are too fast stock.
Can the 998 make more power than the skidoo? Absolutely. Can you make the mach respectable? I assume so but maybe it costs more to do? Some people don’t care about that either while others do.
A 998 doesn’t have the hp potential of a 1100 zuke or 4 cylinder Yamaha either so idk? We get what we get and deal with it.
Btw. Cat didn’t do crap today for 23 unless you like blasts

Reaffirms my jumping ship in my mind and not waiting around anymore
Carry on

 

[Simplespeed]

I just thankful that the snowmobile rivalry is alive and well.. If Ski-Doo and Polaris were not around who would we beat up on ?? Lol.. Its lonely at the top….

 

[SumpBuster]

This is an interesting read. What’s wrong with either? I mean you can like what you like and really that’s what it is. I drive a gmc and I wouldn’t own a Chevy.
I am sure there are some good running machs. The stock one I rode was not impressive but I also just jumped on it rode it a bit and jumped off. No adjustment. They are more up to date on tech than cat/yami for sure! To be honest there wasn’t much excitement on the zr9000 either until you start to tune it. That’s my opinion though and others say they are too fast stock.
Can the 998 make more power than the skidoo? Absolutely. Can you make the mach respectable? I assume so but maybe it costs more to do? Some people don’t care about that either while others do.
A 998 doesn’t have the hp potential of a 1100 zuke or 4 cylinder Yamaha either so idk? We get what we get and deal with it.
Btw. Cat didn’t do crap today for 23 unless you like blasts

Reaffirms my jumping ship in my mind and not waiting around anymore
Carry on

My opinion is they are dam snowmobiles!!! Get rid of the tech, simplify,stop waiting for Chinese chips, lower the price bigly, and put good shocks and springs on a geometrically correct (c'mon, man, theyve been perfected years ago, dont need shocks outside the tunnel...that didnt last long..lol) and perfect what you make, and fix known flaws (listening yamicat?) And hire some designers to make them look great! (The yamicats look pretty good imo already). Then again, maybe computer controlled, handle adjustable variable pitch teeth, with gps, on my lawn rake would be cool.

 

[Jvji24]

I agree
It’s too bad textron seems to be sinking a product that was once a leader in tech.
The 10 year old procross with the Yamaha 998 is still pretty awesome and hard to beat! They were ahead of their time and it would be nice to see that continue.
Competition is definitely good and we need it so we all can argue about it! Lol
Without that I will quit snowmobiling!!!!

 

[SumpBuster]

I agree
It’s too bad textron seems to be sinking a product that was once a leader in tech.
The 10 year old procross with the Yamaha 998 is still pretty awesome and hard to beat! They were ahead of their time and it would be nice to see that continue.
Competition is definitely good and we need it so we all can argue about it! Lol
Without that I will quit snowmobiling!!!!

The procross is a strong chassis, especially the front, and the geometry is good for the rider position. So all thats left is a good shock and spring package. An es350 lexus was basically a camry, so why do they ride and handle better? Better shock and spring calibration.
However, that 998? Best dam sled motor EVA!! Without much crazy electronics to fail.

 

[Upstater57]

Complain as many of you will about the Arctic Cat Chassis, but I do believe they race well in Cross Country racing which not unlike what most of do when we ride hard ( safely of course ). Not too many Doo's or Poo's do as well.

 

[SumpBuster]

Complain as many of you will about the Arctic Cat Chassis, but I do believe they race well in Cross Country racing which not unlike what most of do when we ride hard ( safely of course ). Not too many Doo's or Poo's do as well.

The front end is steel..and steel pick up points...thick too! Dam rugged! I love my apex, wont sell it, but that cat front end is far superior, imo.

 

[Doc Harley]

Topic:
Mach Z not stock king of the lake.

the topic speaks for itself. The 998t is the fastest lake racer being built today, and that's that.
Not quite sure why people need to defend they're position?!?!

The hardest pill to swallow..... Yamaha made this claim in all their advertisements 6yrs ago B4 they even made it to the showroom. And we've spent the last 6yrs punishing the competition. And nothing has changed.

Idk.....hahaha.

 

[mooser17]

Topic:
Mach Z not stock long of the lake.

the topic speaks for itself. The 998t is the fastest lake racer being built today, and that's that.
Not quite sure why people need to defend they're position?!?!

The hardest pill to swallow..... Yamaha made this claim in all their advertisements 6yrs ago B4 they even made it to the showroom. And we've spent the last 6yrs punishing the competition. And nothing has changed.

Idk.....hahaha.

AMEN! 998 IS THE KING.... I've had two 998's and both were very strong sleds stock! One was 125mph & other 121mph gps stock. Of course on great conditions, the 998 doesn't like heavy snow conditions. I now have the mighty 900R . . . . . Well it's no 998. Nice snowmobile good on the trails but motor is no where near the 998. Chassis is good to a point but honestly the more I ride this 900R I question is this really that good? I will say my biggest issue is the dam darty/twitchy/diving front end!!! That I will say the Procross is most definitely superior! So long and short is Mach, Mack,XRS,X,Adrenaline.....are not king of any Lake or trail IMHO. Not a terrible sled but nowhere near top of food chain. And yes I own two skidoo Gen 4's. I'm hoping for 23 SRX with EPS & Refined rear skid.