whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
It's not over until it's over and OEM Agreements follow the money trail for both companies. Unfortunately the snomo market is shrinking for all OEMs so not much going on with any MFG. Textron could want to sweeten the OEM Agreement and go for the big bucks with Yamaha or shut it down and go it alone...we just don't know yet. Yamaha may have something new out of Japan we don't know about either. As someone said the Apex Market has not been addressed by the competition. Doo could get there with the Endro air suspension and and a new 150 hp 4s engine or with a turbo or super charge the 1200 and still let the 850 be their flagship sled. Lots of things can happen with Yamaha and or Textron we just have to wait them both out until they are ready to let us all know their future direction. IMO the Sidewinder is a sweet sled but not an Apex by a long shot. That market is wide open and low hanging fruit for Yamaha, AC or Doo... but not Poo ....no 4s sleds and not interested in the Apex market at all.
2lapsdown
Expert
You have been stunnin
There is no Apex market...that has been proven for the last decade. Ask a dealer, Jesus man give up. You have been stunningly wrong for a long time. Give up.
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
The
There is a limited old Apex market but a huge lighter clean sheet Apex market. Come on anyone that thinks the 4s market is 130ish and 200 hp as its only breakdown segments is bat blind to low hanging fruit. Lol
2lapsdown
Expert
Ok...sweet plan...except there is no clean sheet Apex. And Yamaha doesn't build sleds any more. And hasn't come up with a clean sheet design in a decade. Other than that you are good to go. Arctic Cat has done a sweet job with the Yamaha motors. Even after the Yamaha fiasco in 2014 when they decided they were to cool to give up the Mitsubishi coding....well played
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whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
Sounds to me like you have given up on Yamaha Snowmobile Division coming up with a clean sheet design. To me it’s not over until it is over and Yamaha says no new OEM Agreement with Textron and we are closing up the snowmobile division. There are many things that can happen that I’m open to and waiting to see how things can and will evolve. The Apex clean sheet market segment has not been addressed and even Doo dealers see that as low hanging fruit that is different than the 850 market. I can’t say Valcourt sees it that way but the dealers do. This is why so many TY members keep saying they will keep riding their current Apex as nothing has backfilled that market segment.
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2lapsdown
Expert
There is no Yamaha Snowmobile division. It died a log time ago. Low hanging fruit is just stupid....You are WAY out of touch with reality.
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
Please submit proof of this position. It can be your opinion but it certainly is not based on any fact that Yamaha has closed their Snowmobile Division that my friend is fake news without any fact based information. Lol and you say I’m out of touch with reality. Yamaha Snowmobile Division is open for business.
blueironranger
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 2,002
- Age
- 45
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- Iron Range MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2014 Viper XTX
2009 Phazer MTX
I think there is a decent market for a 160-170hp NA 4 stroke, beside the people here that want one there are quite a few Doo guys screaming for a more powerful “1200” . The issue is it falls in the 800 Class and I tend to believe they want the agreement to continue with a Textron and they really wouldn’t be interested in a semi direct competitor to the in-house 800. Most all of the current 4 strokes fill the gaps where the old 500, 700, and 1000 classes use to be and honestly think it would be better to replace the Phazer and come out with fresh , cheap to build, engine for that market (also Cat 5000) as the Ace 900 seems to sell well. The “Clean” 800/850’s took a lot of “Apex” class buyers away.
benjamingvsu
Expert
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 252
- Location
- Stevensville, Michigan
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- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2014 Viper rtx se
I just read the 2016 Yamaha Motor report, hoping to find something valuable to add to this conversation. What I found was the word Snowmobile 3 times in the whole document. All terrain is mentioned 2 times. Atv's, snowmobiles, generators, snow throwers, golf carts, and a couple other things only account for 10% of the business as part of the "power products" division. Discussion in the power products section is about robotics and self driving equipment. Motorcycle is mentioned 56 times and is 62% of the total business. Maybe they spinoff the traditional atv and sled business to Textron while focusing the Yamaha Motor efforts on self driving ag, home and industrial equipment?
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
That indeed is the problem in a nutshell.....Neither Yamaha or Textron seem willing to announce a future direction for their OEM Agreement... It's almost like there is a gag order from the top.
rtx moose
VIP Member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
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- 1,141
- Age
- 52
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- WATERTOWN,MN
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- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2017 sidewinder LTX LE,2007 RTX,2000 SRX700
I see yamaha has been busy filing patents lately,looks like another motor and 2 frames
ccmviper
Pro
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2016
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- 183
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- 47
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- Newfoundland
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- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2010 Nytro xtx
2016 Viper MTX 141
2018 M8000
Can you post the links?
Deeppow16
TY 4 Stroke Master
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2015
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- 1,159
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- 29
- Location
- Montrose, Minnesota
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2016 Arctic Cat M8000
2009 Yamaha Nytro MTX (Totaled)
2002 Polaris 600 XCSP (Sold)
1999 Ski-doo Formula 500 (Totaled)
With Yamaha filing these patents that tells me that someone is doing some work to keep the sled biz going. I for one don't want to see Yamaha go. They have a huge history in the sled industry. I think the agreement with cat was a great thing the did. Both companies needed a boost and I think that has happened. I know this has been said many times before but If Yamaha built a 2 stroke for there mountain sleds I would be on that so fast now I'm not saying 4 strokes are bad in anyways I'm just saying that if Yamaha offered just 1 or maybe 2 (600 & 800) 2 Strokes that it would probably increase their market share.
Yamaha didn't say they were not going to make the Vector any longer so when it's over it's over, till then I am all Yamaha.
Oldexciter
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2017
- Messages
- 80
- Age
- 38
- Location
- Ohio
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 1997 ski-doo mkz 583 Yamaha rx1
I have not read any replies yet but IMHO I see a true merger with artic cat in the future. It could provide Yamaha with soild 2 stroke engines to compete in the 600/800+ class. Idk if Trexton(spelling is prob wrong but the company that bought artic cat) would have the cash flow as Yamaha has there hands in everything from outboard motors, good utvs and quads.. and I think I saw a piano with the symbol. I think what is killing the snowmobile industry is the price of a new sled.. 15k for a new one, that’s just crazy to me. I got back into snowmobiling hard last winter.. this spring my wife assured me it’s ok if you want a new sled we will figure it out. I could not pull the trigger, I’m not broke by any means but the payment would be close to my wife’s car payment. Oh trust me I wanted it.. but I could not look my wife in the eyes and say “sorry babe we can’t go out to eat this weekend bc of my sled payment” I’ll always be loyal to Yamaha that’s what I learned how to ride on and that’s what I’ll always ride. Honestly all OEMs are pricing out the average joe.. just my 2 cents
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