Yamaha Cutting Production for 2019

[stevewithOCD]

LOL! I am fired up! For an old fart! Got sent to the back of the field for an unapproved ski adjustment, but by lap 2, the turbo will be sucking yellow paint and casting debris off the sides of trail plugging Doos!!!

"Sucking Yellow paint" & "trail plugging DOO's"
Mr. SumpBuster is on FIRE today!
Did you take a little blue pill today? Not the one with a V on the side, the one with a big Y on the side...

 

[T-Bone]

longer r&d=quality!!!ever seen a crank failure with the blue?

They make great engines. No disputing that but R&D is more than crankshafts and engines. 2006 Apex: W arms cracking, idlers delaminating, luke warm hand warmers, hyfax wear. 2007 Phazer: rear tunnel icing, cold start issues. 2008: Nytro. All great engines though!

 

[SumpBuster]

"Sucking Yellow paint" & "trail plugging DOO's"
Mr. SumpBuster is on FIRE today!
Did you take a little blue pill today? Not the one with a V on the side, the one with a big Y on the side...

Either that or too much coffee again! I tend to ramble...waiting for snow, excersising right thumb restraint and increased left brake index finger response!

 

[Beartrap]

I don’t think we can expect a Yamaha designed and built sled any time soon. It's more likely that Yamaha will continue to move in the direction of viewing the sled market as a venue to sell engines and to support their dealer network with some Yamaha branded Arctic Cats to sell.

The problems are market share, the cost of developing a new sled, and the future of the industry. Yamaha’s market share of snowmobile industry is too small to justify the gamble.

Yamaha took a gamble on the sidewinder. It’s a great sled and it got great press prior to launch, but it didn’t change the industry. It would be interesting to see Yamaha’s total sidewinder sales compared to their projections. But purely based on anecdotal evidence, there are a lot of 2017s left over and the dealers that I have spoken with were underwhelmed by the sales. They sold units, but it wasn’t the game changer they were hoping for. If Yamaha had sold every sled and could not keep up with demand, then I think we’d see heavier investment from Yamaha. But that is not what happened.

The problem is market share. Skidoo and Polaris dominate the industry. The only way Yamaha becomes the big player in the sled industry again is to convert skidoo and Polaris riders. If the sidewinder didn’t convert many riders, how much better can Yamaha expect to do with a Japanese developed and built sled? Maybe if they dumped a ton a money into a lightweight two stroke they could convert some more riders. But to what end?

Yamaha has surely considered the cost that it would take to capture more market share in the sled industry. But they have also surely projected what the sled industry will look like in 10-20 years. These projections don’t look great. Motor sports in North America are not seeing they growth they had 10 years ago and snowmobiles are even more risky. What are winters going to look like in 15 years? What will the trail networks look like? Maybe these types of changes will reduce a 100,000 sleds/year industry to 50,000 sleds/year.

For a conservative company like Yamaha the risk/reward of dumping a ton of money into a new model does not make sense.

This isn’t the 70s anymore, when anyone who made something with an engine could design a snowmobile and expect to sell some units. Snowmobiles today are extremely complicated with insane supply lines and manufacturing processes. A problem that Yamaha has is that they have not designed a new snowmobile in 10 years. That’s a lot of institutional knowledge lost. Without them spending a ton of money, we can’t expect that a company that hasn’t designed a snowmobile in 10 years and that has never designed a snowmobile with a great suspension, to build a new game changing snowmobile from scratch.

I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see Yamaha investing big in the snowmobile industry. The tepid 50th anniversary seems to confirm this.

 

[SumpBuster]

I don’t think we can expect a Yamaha designed and built sled any time soon. It's more likely that Yamaha will continue to move in the direction of viewing the sled market as a venue to sell engines and to support their dealer network with some Yamaha branded Arctic Cats to sell.

The problems are market share, the cost of developing a new sled, and the future of the industry. Yamaha’s market share of snowmobile industry is too small to justify the gamble.

Yamaha took a gamble on the sidewinder. It’s a great sled and it got great press prior to launch, but it didn’t change the industry. It would be interesting to see Yamaha’s total sidewinder sales compared to their projections. But purely based on anecdotal evidence, there are a lot of 2017s left over and the dealers that I have spoken with were underwhelmed by the sales. They sold units, but it wasn’t the game changer they were hoping for. If Yamaha had sold every sled and could not keep up with demand, then I think we’d see heavier investment from Yamaha. But that is not what happened.

The problem is market share. Skidoo and Polaris dominate the industry. The only way Yamaha becomes the big player in the sled industry again is to convert skidoo and Polaris riders. If the sidewinder didn’t convert many riders, how much better can Yamaha expect to do with a Japanese developed and built sled? Maybe if they dumped a ton a money into a lightweight two stroke they could convert some more riders. But to what end?

Yamaha has surely considered the cost that it would take to capture more market share in the sled industry. But they have also surely projected what the sled industry will look like in 10-20 years. These projections don’t look great. Motor sports in North America are not seeing they growth they had 10 years ago and snowmobiles are even more risky. What are winters going to look like in 15 years? What will the trail networks look like? Maybe these types of changes will reduce a 100,000 sleds/year industry to 50,000 sleds/year.

For a conservative company like Yamaha the risk/reward of dumping a ton of money into a new model does not make sense.

This isn’t the 70s anymore, when anyone who made something with an engine could design a snowmobile and expect to sell some units. Snowmobiles today are extremely complicated with insane supply lines and manufacturing processes. A problem that Yamaha has is that they have not designed a new snowmobile in 10 years. That’s a lot of institutional knowledge lost. Without them spending a ton of money, we can’t expect that a company that hasn’t designed a snowmobile in 10 years and that has never designed a snowmobile with a great suspension, to build a new game changing snowmobile from scratch.

I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see Yamaha investing big in the snowmobile industry. The tepid 50th anniversary seems to confirm this.

What was that dodge (ok, plymouth) thing several years back, that everyone had to have..oh yeah, prowler.....or the Chevy hhr....dealer markups....greatest thing since sliced bread....can't give em away or find them.
I don't buy first year stuff, typically, and I don't think many do. The sw is a pretty great all all around sled, with unmatcheable smoothness and thrust. As more ride these things, a following will begin. I read a lot of mtn. stories and the overall conclusion of many riders is its a homerun. But one homerun doesn't necessarily win the ballgame. I know one thing from local observations, it can create hate! People in the know deep down want one....maybe not to become a yamaha loyalist, but just because the sled works very well, and your sitting right behind F1 technology for the masses..That's pretty cool in my book, in a sea of wild colors, ugly sleds, and some undeserved hype of the latest greatest thing on snow....here's a well proven chassis, with an engine only an idiot could hate!!
And Lexus isn't a top seller by any stretch...but hey, they are pretty great cars, truth be told. (Yes I bought one used, and have 3 dodges now and had many fords, and used to have chevys. Even a cosworth vega)

 

[blueironranger]

The one thing I hear most people say the would buy in heart beat is a 2 stroke Triple, I hear it from all different brand riders. If I'm with a group and an SRX comes flying by they first thing I usually hear is "Those triples sound sweet" come out of someones mouth followed by "I wish someone would build a triple again!" from someone else. Yamaha could pull in a ton of riders with a 800 DFI triple but that's about as likely as a 450# 150+hp 4 stroke! I keep hearing rumors of a 900 triple from my Polaris buddies as the new monster motor from Poo, kinda makes sense as the 600 is 5x as reliable as the 800, just copy and paste another cylinder on.

 

[sk-rx1]

The one thing I hear most people say the would buy in heart beat is a 2 stroke Triple, I hear it from all different brand riders. If I'm with a group and an SRX comes flying by they first thing I usually hear is "Those triples sound sweet" come out of someones mouth followed by "I wish someone would build a triple again!" from someone else. Yamaha could pull in a ton of riders with a 800 DFI triple but that's about as likely as a 450# 150+hp 4 stroke! I keep hearing rumors of a 900 triple from my Polaris buddies as the new monster motor from Poo, kinda makes sense as the 600 is 5x as reliable as the 800, just copy and paste another cylinder on.

Wonder if it would be possible to take the Viper/SRX triple and do some of the things to it that Cat did to their 600/800 to make it meet requirements? Of course Yamaha has said they only want to build motors that have application to sleds as well as UTV/ATV and PWC. Skidoo, Cat, and Polaris do not have that constraint.

 

[Deeppow16]

The one thing I hear most people say the would buy in heart beat is a 2 stroke Triple, I hear it from all different brand riders. If I'm with a group and an SRX comes flying by they first thing I usually hear is "Those triples sound sweet" come out of someones mouth followed by "I wish someone would build a triple again!" from someone else. Yamaha could pull in a ton of riders with a 800 DFI triple but that's about as likely as a 450# 150+hp 4 stroke! I keep hearing rumors of a 900 triple from my Polaris buddies as the new monster motor from Poo, kinda makes sense as the 600 is 5x as reliable as the 800, just copy and paste another cylinder on.

I have heard the same rumors about the 900 triple form Polaris but I don't think they will do it because Polaris is all about the weight and I doubt they would go that route. Plus Polaris has been down that road before with a 900 and that motor was garbage. I think if anything they will just increase the stroke of there 800 like Doo did for there 850. I do think it would be pretty cool to see Yamaha build a new triple. I know its not likely but I like the sound of the idea.

 

[Sasquatch]

I didn't think I offended anyone sorry if I did, by the way, did you ever consider applying for a job at Yamahas new head office? you could probably solve a lot of issue's for Yamaha, you should give them a call

Nice! Thinly veiled attempt at sarcasm! Yawn you'll have to do better then that to get me to bite! LMAO!

 

[Sasquatch]

who said they have not developed anything new,there 5 new year thing is still in the works,moving the division set it back a couple years,be patient

5 new sleds in 5 years so unless there are three new sleds in the works for 2018, oh wait there isn't! And none of them are Yamaha's anyway! I've been caught up in the hype to many times to fall for that tidbit again. Yamaha is no longer a sled manufacture they have relegated themselves to engine builder only, I'm still daring them to prove me wrong!

 

[Sasquatch]

longer r&d=quality!!!ever seen a crank failure with the blue?

Yamaha does not have a problem per say till the Catamaha engine. Then it was broken gears destroying the engine!

 

[Sasquatch]

I don’t think we can expect a Yamaha designed and built sled any time soon. It's more likely that Yamaha will continue to move in the direction of viewing the sled market as a venue to sell engines and to support their dealer network with some Yamaha branded Arctic Cats to sell.

The problems are market share, the cost of developing a new sled, and the future of the industry. Yamaha’s market share of snowmobile industry is too small to justify the gamble.

Yamaha took a gamble on the sidewinder. It’s a great sled and it got great press prior to launch, but it didn’t change the industry. It would be interesting to see Yamaha’s total sidewinder sales compared to their projections. But purely based on anecdotal evidence, there are a lot of 2017s left over and the dealers that I have spoken with were underwhelmed by the sales. They sold units, but it wasn’t the game changer they were hoping for. If Yamaha had sold every sled and could not keep up with demand, then I think we’d see heavier investment from Yamaha. But that is not what happened.

The problem is market share. Skidoo and Polaris dominate the industry. The only way Yamaha becomes the big player in the sled industry again is to convert skidoo and Polaris riders. If the sidewinder didn’t convert many riders, how much better can Yamaha expect to do with a Japanese developed and built sled? Maybe if they dumped a ton a money into a lightweight two stroke they could convert some more riders. But to what end?

Yamaha has surely considered the cost that it would take to capture more market share in the sled industry. But they have also surely projected what the sled industry will look like in 10-20 years. These projections don’t look great. Motor sports in North America are not seeing they growth they had 10 years ago and snowmobiles are even more risky. What are winters going to look like in 15 years? What will the trail networks look like? Maybe these types of changes will reduce a 100,000 sleds/year industry to 50,000 sleds/year.

For a conservative company like Yamaha the risk/reward of dumping a ton of money into a new model does not make sense.

This isn’t the 70s anymore, when anyone who made something with an engine could design a snowmobile and expect to sell some units. Snowmobiles today are extremely complicated with insane supply lines and manufacturing processes. A problem that Yamaha has is that they have not designed a new snowmobile in 10 years. That’s a lot of institutional knowledge lost. Without them spending a ton of money, we can’t expect that a company that hasn’t designed a snowmobile in 10 years and that has never designed a snowmobile with a great suspension, to build a new game changing snowmobile from scratch.

I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see Yamaha investing big in the snowmobile industry. The tepid 50th anniversary seems to confirm this.

I'll just add to that its hard to woo sled sales when your sled is an Arctic Cat. Stopgap measure to support dealers but no real Yamaha substance. What sold Yamaha was the brand identity/loyalty and bullet proof engines. Only one really benefiting here is Cat. Their identity is being sold by two companys! Yamaha is not making a pot of money selling engines and buying sleds from another manufacture! They put themselves in this position by falling so far behind the competition chassis wise, the perception of old tech drove the customers away! As far as building from scratch goes they did that in 2003 and revolutionized the industry doing something that was unheard of. Their best bet is buy Cat and build two separate sleds one four stroke, one two, don't compete against yourself with overlapping sleds. Streamline down to maybe 6 different sleds. 3 Yamaha 3 Cat!

 

[Sasquatch]

While I loved my Cat triples I can't see myself going back to two strokes. I love my 4 cylinder four stroke and when I can't ride one of them anymore the thought of a triple two stoke starts to sound better!

 

[cannondale27]

While I loved my Cat triples I can't see myself going back to two strokes. I love my 4 cylinder four stroke and when I can't ride one of them anymore the thought of a triple two stoke starts to sound better!

Sasquatch I saw one major thing to me that you finally wrote. "Yamaha needs to buy Cat Snowmobile" That is it. The Key. Till they do I will not buy another new Yamaha. Will buy a used/leftover Apex for real riding and a 2 st other for play.

 

[whitedust1]

Guys don't hold your breath that Yamaha will buy Cat from Textron. #1 Yamaha will never ever put their name on any Textron 2s engines forget it engines are the core biz of Yamaha and they are darn good at it. So in my mind what would Yamaha buy that the OEM Agreement does not already give them? You go the OEM route in the first place because it is more profitable than in house mfg. No idea what some of you are thinking from a profit stand point? If some how someone could prove to Yamaha it is profitable to buy Cat not go the OEM route then #2 Textron would have to want to sell Cat which is unlikely at this time. So expect more of the same via OEM Agreement and maybe just maybe Yamaha has a clean sheet Apex limited build replacement out of Japan but probably not with the low snow winters and the lack of new designs from all the competition. The snomo mags are a real bore this year and I'm done with them just nothing new to feature and read about. I'll miss the Apex but really it was not selling and dealers were dying on the vine with it. If the SS suspension was a hit many would have stepped up and bought a new Apex but it was very harsh much worse than the CK plus the deeper lugged trackss were useless to most trail riders. The Apex is a power crusier pimp it out with great shocks, EC Ohlins, cushy suspension, prestudded ice ripper tracks, heated seats, tall windshield, LED Lights, Snowtrackers, EPS, Trick updated pod, all the stuff I have to put on aftermarket & possibly many of us would buy new.