Yamaha Cutting Production for 2019

[SnoNinja]

Why has this thread turned into an argument between the DBII lovers and the Procross lovers on which design is better. Both have there place. Apex riders that want to sit back and cruise won't be happy on a Procross, and those of us that prefer the rider forward Procross won't go back to a sit down style sled. I was basically done riding ten years ago, and the Procross chassis Yamaha is the reason I got back into riding. Frankly, I didn't like being sore the day after riding the sit down sleds on trashed trails. I now ride 80/20 off trail / on trail, and the sit down chassis isn't for me. Maybe 10 years from now when I just want to cruise it will be different, but for now, the Procross is my chassis of preferences. Doesn't make the DBII a bad chassis, just not what the younger standup and pound crowd is looking for. I would love to see Yamaha develop a true Yamaha chassis that suits this new rider preferences a bit more as that's what Yamaha is missing. One with real bolts that use wrenches and sockets, and don't break in half and strip out. But, until they do, I'll keep on smiling on my Procross chassis while I'm carving a sidehill along a hardwood ridge.

 

[20/80]

Well... I guess the important thing is your happy with your sled, I guess back when the pro cross was first deputed for Cat the true blue riders were skeptical, this was when Yamaha was standing on their own two feet, after the pro cross was on the snow for abit the true blue opinions on the chassis some what turned to bashing at times, so it was a hard pill to swallow for the true blue's when Yamaha started sharing the pro cross with Cat, blue's realized that Japan had a natural disaster that hurt Yamaha's sled division and the pro cross would be a hold over till Yamaha was back on their feet, well years have past and Yamaha has not given any indication yet that they are going to stand on their own two feet again and build their own sled chassis, blue's are hoping maybe even dreaming this will happen, fact is if you can afford to trade every 2 years it doesn't really matter what sled you buy as long as your happy.

 

[journeyman]

Well put Sasquatch! The only way to make lighter sleds is to make them more disposable! Making sleds lighter is done using less metal in existing materials or use lighter materials that have the same strength capabilities. In order use these high priced materials as a manufacturer you would price your sled out of the market. If Yamaha could only redesign the current Apex to a slightly more forward seating position!

I am the 2nd owner of my 2007 Attak. The previous owner added 2" of foam to the seat and had an upholstery shop redo the seat so it looks stock. That and the 2" riser makes my sled feel so much more comfortable. I notice it right away when I jump on another persons Apex.

I haven't had a chance to ride a 2018 Apex but IMHO a little more rider forward as mentioned and a real good rear skid are the 2 things that would make the Apex better for me.

I put on several hundred miles last week in Michigan. The only place that sucked was a 10 mile stretch on trail 3 near the Mosquito Inn being the groomer was broken. Otherwise I was happy with what I got. If I had to ride moguls that bad constantly I think I'd hang it up. With the 136 Ripsaw 2 and the excellent clutch setup I am running it still puts a smile on my face. It pulls hard from corner to corner and has very respectable top end. I do notice the models with EXUP exhaust are much quieter. I still like the sound of mine, a more distinct street bike sound. But as we know , everything must come to an end.

I like the ride of the Procross, I have some friends with Sidewinders. I just don't want to sink aprox. 12-13K into a sled right now I ride one week a year. So for me the Apex suits me just fine. It will be interesting to see what the longevity will be with the Sidewinders.

 

[Sasquatch]

Well put Sasquatch! The only way to make lighter sleds is to make them more disposable! Making sleds lighter is done using less metal in existing materials or use lighter materials that have the same strength capabilities. In order use these high priced materials as a manufacturer you would price your sled out of the market. If Yamaha could only redesign the current Apex to a slightly more forward seating position!

That would be interesting, move bars forward as far as engine will allow and raise seat four inches to 6 inches!

 

[Sasquatch]

Well... I guess the important thing is your happy with your sled, I guess back when the pro cross was first deputed for Cat the true blue riders were skeptical, this was when Yamaha was standing on their own two feet, after the pro cross was on the snow for abit the true blue opinions on the chassis some what turned to bashing at times, so it was a hard pill to swallow for the true blue's when Yamaha started sharing the pro cross with Cat, blue's realized that Japan had a natural disaster that hurt Yamaha's sled division and the pro cross would be a hold over till Yamaha was back on their feet, well years have past and Yamaha has not given any indication yet that they are going to stand on their own two feet again and build their own sled chassis, blue's are hoping maybe even dreaming this will happen, fact is if you can afford to trade every 2 years it doesn't really matter what sled you buy as long as your happy.

I agree except Cat shared their procross sled with them! All most of us want is Yamaha to stand on their own two feet and be a sled designer builder again! All we see is a former sled company that gave up and is letting the competition build their sleds for them. So why be loyal to a company that can't even be loyal to itself, I've said it before and I'll say it again Yamaha let Cat steal their thunder. When the mags talk about the procross they talk about Cat, even when they talk about a Yamaha they specifically point out that its a Cat with Yamaha stickers. Even the Cat riders smile knowingly, Yamaha is done! Welcome to the dark side! With the touring sled moving to the Cat chassis Id say put a fork in it too!

 

[20/80]

I agree except Cat shared their procross sled with them! All most of us want is Yamaha to stand on their own two feet and be a sled designer builder again! All we see is a former sled company that gave up and is letting the competition build their sleds for them. So why be loyal to a company that can't even be loyal to itself, I've said it before and I'll say it again Yamaha let Cat steal their thunder. When the mags talk about the procross they talk about Cat, even when they talk about a Yamaha they specifically point out that its a Cat with Yamaha stickers. Even the Cat riders smile knowingly, Yamaha is done! Welcome to the dark side! With the touring sled moving to the Cat chassis Id say put a fork in it too!

This is sad Sas, kinda wondering what the release will be for Yamaha, new stickers for sure with green pin striping.

 

[HighSpeedLowDrag]

Does the procross chassis even have footrests?
It's almost as though the running boards just end.

 

[VX1R]

I am the 2nd owner of my 2007 Attak. The previous owner added 2" of foam to the seat and had an upholstery shop redo the seat so it looks stock. That and the 2" riser makes my sled feel so much more comfortable. I notice it right away when I jump on another persons Apex.
I haven't had a chance to ride a 2018 Apex but IMHO a little more rider forward as mentioned and a real good rear skid are the 2 things that would make the Apex better for me.
I put on several hundred miles last week in Michigan. The only place that sucked was a 10 mile stretch on trail 3 near the Mosquito Inn being the groomer was broken. Otherwise I was happy with what I got. If I had to ride moguls that bad constantly I think I'd hang it up. With the 136 Ripsaw 2 and the excellent clutch setup I am running it still puts a smile on my face. It pulls hard from corner to corner and has very respectable top end. I do notice the models with EXUP exhaust are much quieter. I still like the sound of mine, a more distinct street bike sound. But as we know , everything must come to an end.
I like the ride of the Procross, I have some friends with Sidewinders. I just don't want to sink aprox. 12-13K into a sled right now I ride one week a year. So for me the Apex suits me just fine. It will be interesting to see what the longevity will be with the Sidewinders.

I totally agree with journeyman. The Apex still has it's place on the snow. So many people do not realize the potential that these sleds have. IMHO they've got to be the most under-rated sled on the snow for experienced riders. I rode his sled last week and could not believe the difference in the riding position/comfort that the extra foam in the seat could make on the Apex. A well set up Apex I believe will still hold it's own with the latest and greatest sleds regardless of brand, especially with a well seasoned rider behind the bars. He also brings up a great point regarding the usage and cost of ownership of a Apex vs. a Sidewinder. The current price of a Sidewinder seems to be about double the price of what a good used Apex is going for these days and for guys that don't have a chance to put on big miles these days an Apex is a great choice.

That said I sent my two beloved Apex's down the road last year that provided my wife and I with over 10 years of trouble free riding and awesome memories for a pair of Sidewinders. The riding position of the Sidewinder over the Apex is the biggest plus for me as I've got a bad knee and the higher riding position of the SW along with the improved suspension means that I can actually look forwards to riding the next day after a 200 mile ride instead of opening the bottle of ibuprofen. I feel that the SW is going to add years to my riding enjoyment over the Apex.

And since this thread is about Yamaha's next step here's hoping that a brand new true blue sled is on the horizon.

Different strokes for different folks. Ride whatever makes you happy and enjoy winter as only us 'beeler's know how to.

Cheers.

 

[journeyman]

As said, I like the Procross chassis. I’d really like to see the 500 4s twin with a little bump in power go into that chassis. Make it 90hp to compete with the 900 Ace sleds.

 

[blueironranger]

As said, I like the Procross chassis. I’d really like to see the 500 4s twin with a little bump in power go into that chassis. Make it 90hp to compete with the 900 Ace sleds.

I think that's where the 847 twin comes in, the Phazer engine is a bit too "buzzy" for a touring/entry level engine IMO. The Phazer does quite well against the ACE already, it will hang with the 900 up to about 70, mine with low gearing and a ton of traction will beat them until I run out of clutch at 75mph GPS. I've been trying to find a Dyno of Wolverine X4 to see where/what the 847 makes for power but haven't found one yet, Yamaha claims 69hp I think. A set of cams and programming could put it right at 90hp/75tq @ 8500 VS Phazer 80hp/57tq @ 8050 (clutch) the extra torque would be more noticable than the HP between the 2, and should actually get better fuel economy. Either would work, 847 would be "new and fresh", which should drive sales better.

 

[journeyman]

I think that's where the 847 twin comes in, the Phazer engine is a bit too "buzzy" for a touring/entry level engine IMO. The Phazer does quite well against the ACE already, it will hang with the 900 up to about 70, mine with low gearing and a ton of traction will beat them until I run out of clutch at 75mph GPS. I've been trying to find a Dyno of Wolverine X4 to see where/what the 847 makes for power but haven't found one yet, Yamaha claims 69hp I think. A set of cams and programming could put it right at 90hp/75tq @ 8500 VS Phazer 80hp/57tq @ 8050 (clutch) the extra torque would be more noticable than the HP between the 2, and should actually get better fuel economy. Either would work, 847 would be "new and fresh", which should drive sales better.

We can only guess, sometimes they purpose build an engine like the Vector/Nytro/Viper engine and the Phazer 500. Other times they derive it from an existing engine....APEX/RX (R1) and the Sidewinder(YXZ1000r).

All Snowest said is there is more Yama/Cat models to come. That doesn't necessarily mean en engine though.

 

[Wannaviper]

I think that's where the 847 twin comes in, the Phazer engine is a bit too "buzzy" for a touring/entry level engine IMO. The Phazer does quite well against the ACE already, it will hang with the 900 up to about 70, mine with low gearing and a ton of traction will beat them until I run out of clutch at 75mph GPS. I've been trying to find a Dyno of Wolverine X4 to see where/what the 847 makes for power but haven't found one yet, Yamaha claims 69hp I think. A set of cams and programming could put it right at 90hp/75tq @ 8500 VS Phazer 80hp/57tq @ 8050 (clutch) the extra torque would be more noticable than the HP between the 2, and should actually get better fuel economy. Either would work, 847 would be "new and fresh", which should drive sales better.

You have a lot more technical knowledge and understanding than I do, but I would think that since they already have the Sidewinder 998 turbo in the Pro Cross chassis, the easiest (cheapest) way to get a 90-100 hp sled would be to simply take the turbo off and use the 998 NA. I would think that keeping the same engine and chassis would keep their costs way down, but give them both an 800 class and a 500 class sled where the only differences would be the turbo and graphics.

 

[journeyman]

You have a lot more technical knowledge and understanding than I do, but I would think that since they already have the Sidewinder 998 turbo in the Pro Cross chassis, the easiest (cheapest) way to get a 90-100 hp sled would be to simply take the turbo off and use the 998 NA. I would think that keeping the same engine and chassis would keep their costs way down, but give them both an 800 class and a 500 class sled where the only differences would be the turbo and graphics.

I think that motor is around 112HP without the turbo in the side by side.

 

[20/80]

I believe Yamaha is using the 998 n/a in its YXZ 1000, it has around 120 hp, the 850 twin could probably put you at 90 hp with some tuning from the engineers at Yamaha and keep the lighter twin in a sled chassis, but Yamaha has so many twins and triples to pick from that they may use something different or build a all new engine, they might even put a small turbo on the 500 and upping the hp to 110 if they are considering a new Phazer in a new chassis.

 

[hibshman25]

I still think the 850 wolverine motor is was purpose built to find its way into a sled beings that transmission was not integrated into the motor like previous side by sides. Just a hunch I have.

They could have an N/A version for entry level, and hopped up version with the factory turbo package. They have the turbo tech figured out for the winder, so why not use it on other models.